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Wood burning stoves to be banned in London


Señor Chris

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5 hours ago, captain flint said:

Thanks. So a multi fuel eco stove burning smokeless fuel is pretty clean (apart from CO2, obviously)?

I doubt it. When burning well, yes, pretty clean but turn them down to 'tick over' and you are limiting oxygen hence incomplete combustion yielding lots of cr*p on the chimney that needs cleaning and lots of particulates up the stack. Also increased CO which is the chemical output from limiting oxygen so hopefully no leaks in the boat. When burning wood it is even worse at 'tick over' with lots of resins distilled in the chimney. Keep the air vents open and good efficient burning. Costs money though!

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1 minute ago, Dr Bob said:

I doubt it. When burning well, yes, pretty clean but turn them down to 'tick over' and you are limiting oxygen hence incomplete combustion yielding lots of cr*p on the chimney that needs cleaning and lots of particulates up the stack. Also increased CO which is the chemical output from limiting oxygen so hopefully no leaks in the boat. When burning wood it is even worse at 'tick over' with lots of resins distilled in the chimney. Keep the air vents open and good efficient burning. Costs money though!

Got it. Thanks for the heads up. All makes perfect sense (to a noob like me who's not really given it much thought before). For now, I'm going with no stove, the fancy Kabola system on the boat I'm getting is supposed to be very good, so I'm going to see what it's like this winter. And yes, it'll possibly turn out to be very good at breaking down. Fingers crossed

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29 minutes ago, captain flint said:

Got it. Thanks for the heads up. All makes perfect sense (to a noob like me who's not really given it much thought before). For now, I'm going with no stove, the fancy Kabola system on the boat I'm getting is supposed to be very good, so I'm going to see what it's like this winter. And yes, it'll possibly turn out to be very good at breaking down. Fingers crossed

Dont be so daft. Fit a solid fuel stove. Whilst I know combusion theory, it is far more sensible to run a solid fuel fire. Turn it down overnight and you wake up to a nice toastie boat. We ran one in our old house in Jockland (hope that is not racist!) for 20 years and never had a problem. Ours on the boat is equally as good.

Edited by Dr Bob
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7 hours ago, captain flint said:

Smokeless fuel help? Is this whole conversation about burning *wood* or about burning solid fuel? sorry to be ignorant but I really want to know that, asked a few times, not heard as yet, thought you might now. thx

Our stove (Charnwood C5) which is a multifuel stove is available in the very latest ecodesign standard. Ours particular version isn't I don't believe but it is DEFRA approved to burn wood in smoke control areas.

It is able to burn smokeless fuel by virtue of the addition of a griddle/grate Which raises the fuel bed. To burn wood alone you dont need to use this.

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10 hours ago, captain flint said:

 For now, I'm going with no stove, the fancy Kabola system on the boat I'm getting is supposed to be very good, so I'm going to see what it's like this winter. And yes, it'll possibly turn out to be very good at breaking down. Fingers crossed

Always best to have two independent sources of heat, hot water and electricity to charge batteries on a boat.

Stove & Kabola; engine & Kabola; 2 alternators.

It's called "redundancy and minimises your pain when one inevitably fails.

Ideally the boat would have two engines, but that's not practicable on a canal boat.

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10 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Always best to have two independent sources of heat, hot water and electricity to charge batteries on a boat.

Stove & Kabola; engine & Kabola; 2 alternators.

It's called "redundancy and minimises your pain when one inevitably fails.

Ideally the boat would have two engines, but that's not practicable on a canal boat.

but you could use "Shanks's pony" too right on your points a multi fuel stove with back boiler is the perfect item on a boat .Heat /Hot water if plumbed into a calorifier/Cooks food boils kettle ?burns virtually any fuel.And generates electricity for eco fan . Has any one bough a Aldi fan and fed LED lights instead of motor ?

 

Edited by b0atman
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15 hours ago, captain flint said:

Got it. Thanks for the heads up. All makes perfect sense (to a noob like me who's not really given it much thought before). For now, I'm going with no stove, the fancy Kabola system on the boat I'm getting is supposed to be very good, so I'm going to see what it's like this winter. And yes, it'll possibly turn out to be very good at breaking down. Fingers crossed

Fancy new Kabola or fancy old Kabola.  New may mean power hungry, old means inefficient!

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I walk along the lea sometimes. On still winter days the smoke from boat fires can really build up. It's the only place I've ever seen a proper pea-souper smog.

Some have mentioned smokeless fuels, the problem with those is they often have very high sulpher content.

A couple of photographs from what I'd typically see on a cold still morning.

smog2.jpg

smog3.jpg

 

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43 minutes ago, jds_1981 said:

I walk along the lea sometimes. On still winter days the smoke from boat fires can really build up. It's the only place I've ever seen a proper pea-souper smog.

Some have mentioned smokeless fuels, the problem with those is they often have very high sulpher content.

A couple of photographs from what I'd typically see on a cold still morning.

smog2.jpg

smog3.jpg

 

Blimey. Good photos. 

On 10/3/2017 at 12:56, Robbo said:

Fancy new Kabola or fancy old Kabola.  New may mean power hungry, old means inefficient!

less than ten years old but, stupidly, can't give you the model no. Possibly being dense, here, but not entirely sure what you mean by "power hungry" - it runs on diesel... Might need a small charge for starting it up or something, but beyond that, shouldn't ereally be a big drain on leccy I'd have thought...?

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On 10/3/2017 at 08:49, cuthound said:

Always best to have two independent sources of heat, hot water and electricity to charge batteries on a boat.

Stove & Kabola; engine & Kabola; 2 alternators.

It's called "redundancy and minimises your pain when one inevitably fails.

Ideally the boat would have two engines, but that's not practicable on a canal boat.

yes this is a good point and yep I'm familiar with redudancy as a concept. For some reason it didn't immediately spring to mind when considering heating options for a metal boat sitting in water which I intend to live on during the English Winter. And this is after having lived on a boat with only one source of heating which broke down when the canal was frozen over. Sometimes I'm impressed with my own stupidity! ;-) 

Might try and look into an ecostove but I bet they cost a flipping fortune

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3 minutes ago, captain flint said:

Blimey. Good photos. 

less than ten years old but, stupidly, can't give you the model no. Possibly being dense, here, but not entirely sure what you mean by "power hungry" - it runs on diesel... Might need a small charge for starting it up or something, but beyond that, shouldn't ereally be a big drain on leccy I'd have thought...?

If it’s something like a Pressure Jet it will use electric, something like a large fridge.  The old drip fed ones used no electric but weren’t automatic.

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1 hour ago, Robbo said:

If it’s something like a Pressure Jet it will use electric, something like a large fridge.  The old drip fed ones used no electric but weren’t automatic.

Guess I better hope that it's an old one, then. If inefficient means uses a bit more diesel than you might think, I could live with that. As for "automatic" I'm not sure what you mean, do you mean in terms of having a thermostat, such that it comes on and off when needed? I should have thought there would be some way of adding that on, if it's not intrinsic...? Unless it's hand cranked, or something XD

And, um, power hungry like a *large fridge*? Do you mean a large, 12V fridge? Even that would seem a bit steep. Boat is professionally and seemingly very neatly, tidily and sensibly installed, when it comes to electrics, gas, fuel, etc. But only has 12V power, and I was going to keep it that way TBH....

Oh well, Survey is coming, and the guy I'm using knows his stuff so he'll get me up to speed, no doubt.

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8 minutes ago, captain flint said:

Guess I better hope that it's an old one, then. If inefficient means uses a bit more diesel than you might think, I could live with that. As for "automatic" I'm not sure what you mean, do you mean in terms of having a thermostat, such that it comes on and off when needed? I should have thought there would be some way of adding that on, if it's not intrinsic...? Unless it's hand cranked, or something XD

And, um, power hungry like a *large fridge*? Do you mean a large, 12V fridge? Even that would seem a bit steep. Boat is professionally and seemingly very neatly, tidily and sensibly installed, when it comes to electrics, gas, fuel, etc. But only has 12V power, and I was going to keep it that way TBH....

Oh well, Survey is coming, and the guy I'm using knows his stuff so he'll get me up to speed, no doubt.

Yes like a large 12v fridge,  you should be able to get the figures from the model number, etc. But that won’t tell you the daily figure, only running and startup figures.

Yep automatic as in can turn it self on.  There was another model between drip fed and the newer PJ models.  Not sure how power hungry they are. 

Edited by Robbo
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6 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Yes like a large 12v fridge,  you should be able to get the figures from the model number, etc. But that won’t tell you the daily figure, only running and startup figures.

Yep automatic as in can turn it self on.  There was another model between drip fed and the newer PJ models.  Not sure how power hungry they are. 

Well, it was always going to ba a voyage of discovery, one way or another - wish me luck!

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10 hours ago, jds_1981 said:

I walk along the lea sometimes. On still winter days the smoke from boat fires can really build up. It's the only place I've ever seen a proper pea-souper smog.

Some have mentioned smokeless fuels, the problem with those is they often have very high sulpher content.

A couple of photographs from what I'd typically see on a cold still morning.

smog2.jpg

smog3.jpg

 

If you think those pix show pea super smog then you are mistaken. I well remember in the 50's in London being unable to see my hand in front of my face. Bus conductors would walk in front of the buses holding up burning newspaper.

We had a big in and out drive and one night my dad came home from work with a whole line of cars following him up the drive  My mum was not best pleased when her new net curtains turned yellow and disintegrated.

The last pea super was in the early 60's ans lasted 3 days.

Good old days? Nah not at all

Phil 

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Well, Oop north we had pea soupers, way thicker, couldn't see to the end of my nose, we used to eat a super pea supper to pass the time, while sitting in our hovel int' middle o't' road. Times were hard, you soft southerners had it lucky.

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17 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

Well, Oop north we had pea soupers, way thicker, couldn't see to the end of my nose, we used to eat a super pea supper to pass the time, while sitting in our hovel int' middle o't' road. Times were hard, you soft southerners had it lucky.

Southern softies are just as tough as Northern Nancies.

Phil ☺ 

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I've never boated through London but I think it's time to get it in before diesel boats are banned.

This is what Khan is planning http://www.itv.com/news/london/2017-06-21/londoners-urged-to-abandon-cars-and-take-up-walking-and-cycling/

the timescales are not exactly tight, but he did specifically mention diesel powered boats when interviewed on R4

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On 07/10/2017 at 19:14, Morat said:

Boats in London actually move? :)

Lovely Basset you have there having one is sensible lol

having 2 is nuts

having 3 is our lives are not our own no more

we rescued 2 badly treated

27B76D22-C61B-4381-BBDE-105C6333EFDA.jpeg

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On 9/29/2017 at 11:21, Señor Chris said:

The idea is that eventually there will be no engines at all in London - it will be all-electric. The pollution will still occur but somewhere else - much like aircraft which pollute the whole atmosphere, not just in London, it's someone else's problem.

Even with electric cars there is still pollution.  They are generally heavier so the rubber/brakes/tarmac dust is generated faster than for petrol/diesel cars where already half the particulate output from car is from rubber/brakes/tarmac (not from the engine).  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/04/fewer-cars-not-electric-cars-beat-air-pollution-says-top-uk-adviser-prof-frank-kelly

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35 minutes ago, Robert Laws said:

Even with electric cars there is still pollution.  They are generally heavier so the rubber/brakes/tarmac dust is generated faster than for petrol/diesel cars where already half the particulate output from car is from rubber/brakes/tarmac (not from the engine).  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/04/fewer-cars-not-electric-cars-beat-air-pollution-says-top-uk-adviser-prof-frank-kelly

I wouldnt have thought the cars moved fast enough to burn much rubber or brakes!!:rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, peterboat said:

I wouldnt have thought the cars moved fast enough to burn much rubber or brakes!!:rolleyes:

The Tesla Model 3 Long Range version has a top speed of 140mph and does 0-60 in 5.1 sec. Cruising range is 334 miles.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3#Specifications

It's my birthday today...

Anyone?

Shucks :glare:

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1 hour ago, BruceinSanity said:

The Tesla Model 3 Long Range version has a top speed of 140mph and does 0-60 in 5.1 sec. Cruising range is 334 miles.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3#Specifications

It's my birthday today...

Anyone?

Shucks :glare:

You would never get upto any sort of speed in London, I believe the average speed is only 7mph and having lived in London for the first 40 years of my life I am in agreement.

Phil.  

Happy birthday 

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