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Wood burning stoves to be banned in London


Señor Chris

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Part VI says that Parts 1-3 of the act are not applicable to vessels :

Parts 1-3 cover

Introductory Text

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Part I Dark Smoke

  1. 1. Prohibition of dark smoke from chimneys.
  2. 2. Prohibition of dark smoke from industrial or trade premises.
  3. 3. Meaning of dark smoke.

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Part II Smoke, grit, dust and fumes

  1. Installation of furnaces
    1. 4. Requirement that new furnaces shall be so far as practicable smokeless.
  2. Limits on rate of emission of grit and dust
    1. 5. Emission of grit and dust from furnaces.
  3. Arrestment plant for furnaces
    1. 6. Arrestment plant for new non-domestic furnaces.
    2. 7. Exemptions from section 6.
    3. 8. Requirement to fit arrestment plant for burning solid fuel in other cases.
    4. 9. Appeal to Secretary of State against refusal of approval.
  4. Measurement of grit, dust and fumes
    1. 10. Measurement of grit, dust and fumes by occupiers.
    2. 11. Measurement of grit, dust and fumes by local authorities.
    3. 12. Information about furnaces and fuel consumed.
  5. Outdoor furnaces
    1. 13. Grit and dust from outdoor furnaces, etc.
  6. Height of chimneys
    1. 14. Height of chimneys for furnaces.
    2. 15. Applications for approval of height of chimneys of furnaces.
    3. 16. Height of other chimneys.
  7. Smoke nuisances in Scotland
    1. 17. Abatement of smoke nuisances in Scotland.

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Part III Smoke control areas

  1. Creation of smoke control areas
    1. 18. Declaration of smoke control area by local authority.
    2. 19. Power of Secretary of State to require creation of smoke control areas.
  2. Prohibition on emission of smoke in smoke control area
    1. 20. Prohibition on emission of smoke in smoke control area.
    2. 21. Power by order to exempt certain fireplaces.
    3. 22. Exemptions relating to particular areas.
  3. Dealings with unauthorised fuel
    1. 23. Acquisition and sale of unauthorised fuel in a smoke control area.
  4. Adaptation of fireplaces
    1. 24. Power of local authority to require adaptation of fireplaces in private dwellings.
    2. 25. Expenditure incurred in relation to adaptations in private dwellings.
    3. 26. Power of local authority to make grants towards adaptations to fireplaces in churches, chapels, buildings used by charities etc.
  5. Supplementary provisions
    1. 27. References to adaptations for avoiding contraventions of section 20.
    2. 28. Cases where expenditure is taken to be incurred on execution of works.
    3. 29. Interpretation of Part III.

 

Nope....still not English.

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2 hours ago, dor said:

What I don't quite get when referring to houses is that I thought burning wood is not allowed anyway in a smokeless zone, as wood is not classed as a smokeless fuel.

 

I thought likewise - that you could burn only smokeless fuel (which wood is not) in smokeless zones, which surely includes considerable parts of our cities.

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2 hours ago, dor said:

What I don't quite get when referring to houses is that I thought burning wood is not allowed anyway in a smokeless zone, as wood is not classed as a smokeless fuel.

Maybe he wants to stop smokeless fuel being burnt, and that is used on open fires as well as stoves.

I also wonder how much Londoners pay for their logs.  I seem to recall that the recent trend for woodburning stoves was prompted by a big rise in the price of gas and people rushed out to get their trendy woodburner installed without considering where they were going to get their wood from.

If it's a DEFRA approved stove you can burn wood legally in a smokeless zone. 

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14 minutes ago, Robbo said:

If it's a DEFRA approved stove you can burn wood legally in a smokeless zone. 

How extraordinary; and are many stoves thus approved?

I assume the reasoning is to help poorer people, as wood is far cheaper to buy than coal, and indeed free in some cases.

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4 minutes ago, Athy said:

How extraordinary; and are many stoves thus approved?

I assume the reasoning is to help poorer people, as wood is far cheaper to buy than coal, and indeed free in some cases.

I believe the reasoning is simply that the combustion is so complete that they don’t exhaust nasty stuff. 

And folk like logs burning in the hearth. 

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1 minute ago, WotEver said:

I believe the reasoning is simply that the combustion is so complete that they don’t exhaust nasty stuff. 

And folk like logs burning in the hearth. 

Folk like coal burning in the hearth (or stove) too; but wood usually produces smoke when it burns (one CWDF member would be sad if it didn't), so how can the combustion be complete?

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3 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I believe the reasoning is simply that the combustion is so complete that they don’t exhaust nasty stuff. 

And folk like logs burning in the hearth. 

Indeed it's all to do with combustion temperatures.

When I was working on a project to install wood chip fired Stirling engines, the wood chips were fed into a gasifier that, with the help of forced air, reached temperatures of 1000°C. The exhaust (after heat recovery) was only visible as a  clear haze.

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11 minutes ago, Athy said:

Folk like coal burning in the hearth (or stove) too; but wood usually produces smoke when it burns (one CWDF member would be sad if it didn't), so how can the combustion be complete?

In effect you can't turn the stoves right down to slumber, plus they redirect the gasses/smoke back into the fire to burn off

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6 hours ago, Loddon said:

don't know why he bothers. We need population reduction and pollution poisoning is a random way of selecting those to go, normally the weak and feeble.

Indeed. Much better would achieved by population control but I doubt that makes as good a news story. 

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22 minutes ago, Athy said:

How extraordinary; and are many stoves thus approved?

I assume the reasoning is to help poorer people, as wood is far cheaper to buy than coal, and indeed free in some cases.

When was the last time you bought wood, plus scavenging wood in a city is not exactly as easy as it is on the towpath

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36 minutes ago, Athy said:

wood usually produces smoke when it burns (one CWDF member would be sad if it didn't), so how can the combustion be complete?

Heat and design of airflow I believe. I’m no expert in how it works, I simply know that it does. 

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4 hours ago, DHutch said:

I was going to post this when I saw it last night.

I'm torn, on one level it sounds draconian and unenforceable, but on the flipside there is a surge in people fitting stoves and other fires to houses, many of which are cheap and poorly designed and I would not be at all surprised if they make a very real impact on localised air quality.

 

Daniel

I don't have any data, but I'd have thought the greatest impact to the quality of air in the capital over the past 15 years or so has been the massive increase in the use of diesel vehicles, encouraged to reduce CO2 emissions from petrol cars - so we basically just swapped stratospheric pollution to ground level pollution (different pollutants of course).

Sometimes when I'm driving I see thick plumes of exhaust pouring out of the back of what appear to be relatively new private diesel cars and I can't help wondering how on earth these vehicles pass their MOT emissions tests? Does anyone know if limits to emitted particulate matter (PM10 & PM2.5) actually form part of the annual MOT tests for diesel vehicles? I suspect not...

 

Edited by blackrose
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The following table shows the permissible pollution levels for new diesel and petrol cars from EU1 to EU6.

Particulate emissions for EU5 and EU6 petrol and diesel cars are now the same.

The only difference is in NOx levels, and the difference between EU6 petrol and diesel is now small.

However not sure if these standards are checked for compliance at the MoT test.

What it does show is that the banning of diesel engines is driven by hysteria not fact.

Euro emissions standards for diesel cars 

Euro standard

Date

CO

NOx

PM

Euro 1 July 1992 2.72  - 0.14 
Euro 2 January 1996 1.0 - 0.08
Euro 3 January 2000 0.64 0.50 0.05
Euro 4 January 2005 0.50 0.25 0.025
Euro 5a September 2009 0.50 0.180 0.005
Euro 6 September 2014 0.50 0.080 0.005

Euro emissions standards for petrol cars

Euro standard

Date

CO

NOx

PM

Euro 1 July 1992 2.72  - -
Euro 2 January 1996 2.2 - -
Euro 3 January 2000 2.3 0.15 -
Euro 4 January 2005 1.0 0.08 -
Euro 5 September 2009 1.0 0.060 0.005
Euro 6 September 2014 1.0 0.060

0.005

 

Edited by cuthound
Clarification
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2 hours ago, cuthound said:

And potentially reduces income from personal taxation. (cynical moi?)

 

Its more fundamental than that. A government sees its role as governing a population. No population, no government.  

So it is the primary and fundamental interest of a (any) government to protect it's population. Even better, grow it. Bigger population, bigger government. Equally, shrinking the population runs counter to a (any) government's interest. 

This is why governments will never have a policy of population reduction, even though that would be in the best interests of the remaining members of the reducing population. 

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2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I don't think we need to panic yet. It's not due to take effect till 2025 and will only be at specific times when pollution is already high anyway.

yea correct  it also mentions small zones. so only the worst affected areas.

 

of cause it's just talk at the moment. will it actually come into force.

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