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Ouse in October - mad or not?


Nick D

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Those of you that have answered my 'what type of anchor' thread will know that we are planning a trip from our new mooring at Fairies Hill Marina (near Castleford on the Aire & Calder) up the Ouse to York and then on to Ripon and back during October.  I now have my anchor, lifejackets for us (& dogs) done engine checks etc. and feel prepared but have now looked at the Nicholson guide that talks about the fact that the Ouse in York can rise and fall at very short notice and talks about emergency procedures for moorings in the event that the water rises unexpectedly which has sown a seed of doubt.  I live in the Yorkshire Dales and know that rain water falling here will end up in the Ouse and beyond, but don't know how frequently the water level changes.  I know that it will depend on the weather during the next four weeks, but wonder what folks' experience is and whether we are doing the right thing in making this journey in October.

Edited by Nick D
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Not an expert by any means but I was under the impression that the levels up to York and beyond were controlled in some measure by Naburn Lock? I have been considering this very same trip form a bit further along on the Calder & Hebble. My main concern was the tidal section out of Selby Lock.

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Levels rising or falling substantially are not dangerous if you are on board and cruising at the time.

The main risk is if you have left the boat moored up when they change, or if they change at night when you are moored up and asleep and don't notice.

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The Ouse can rise any time of the year. Nothing in October would put me off. In York as MTB says the main concern after heavy prolonged rain would be the rise in level overnight or whilst you are not on board. If flood conditions are predicted it's good insurance to moor on the rise and fall lanyards on the Kings staithes or move down to Naburn on the floating pontoon. Same goes for Boroughbridge where there's a floating pontoon above Milby lock. In short, if it rains keep an eye on the online EA river level monitors and move to safe mooring if flood threatens. There's no such problem once you're on he Ripon canal.

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And don't forget that it isn't necessarily rain in York you need to be watching for but in the whole of the Ouse catchment area.

8 hours ago, Mr Norman said:

Not an expert by any means but I was under the impression that the levels up to York and beyond were controlled in some measure by Naburn Lock? I have been considering this very same trip form a bit further along on the Calder & Hebble. My main concern was the tidal section out of Selby Lock.

You have never seen the pictures of the Kings Arms under water then?

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We planned to go up to York (and beyond) from Selby in July earlier this year (60ft nb). The evening before we checked in with the lock keeper and sorted out the time that he would be ready for us in the morning. We turned up, a little early in case, just as he was opening up his cabin and checking his messages. He then discovered that the keeper at Naburn (who does different hours on account of the difference in tide times) had left him a message from late the day before that the moorings at Naburn were under water and that, therefore, they would also be so at York.

In consequence he strongly 'advised' (he does not have the powers to forbid) us not to attempt that day and that it might be a few days before the water level dropped sufficiently. Other boaters, one from the area, tried to tell us to ignore what he was saying and that we would be ok. As somewhat risk averse people and mindful that our insurance would probably be invalid if we traveled against the advise of the lock keeper, we stayed put. He did give us permission to over-stay on the closest moorings!

Instead we took the opportunity to visit York by train - both bus and train are convenient - and so we were able to take a closer look at the moorings. Indeed, the main stretch was well and truly under water and although at one time we did see a larger cruiser tied up there it would have been quite a leap from a narrowboat to dry land! In addition, the moorings are stepped so considerable care is needed as the water level drops.

However, the moorings adjacent to the (noisy - busy) pubs was still available and one or two boats including nb's did arrive but the amount of room was limited and, if anyone arrived when they were full, there was not much of a Plan B. The water level was high but nowhere near to flooding these moorings. The water level was high (which makes it less of a ladder climb!) but the flow rate did not seem unduly problematic for these boats coming alongside.

We checked again with the keeper the next day and the advice was still the same and we had a second day in York (we did have a reason to be there). With no prospect of the water level dropping sufficiently for two or three days, we then decided to abandon this part of our plans, somewhat disappointed as we have never made it beyond Selby before. On the other hand, we were not at all unhappy with the advice of the keeper was was cautious but eminently sensible and it was, to us, obviously better to be safe than sorry - after all we knew nothing through practical experience of these waters.

From parts that we could see the trip does look as if it would have been worth the effort if the conditions permitted, even to see what it is like coming back into Selby lock. However, we have done Stockwith and Keadby locks so know the factors involved - and how tricky it can get when there is extra fresh around!

Nothing about this experience should deter others from going that way - just be prepared to be flexible if commonsense indicates.

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Rather than time of year, the main consideration has to be rainfall (we could have a really dry October and November). We made the trip from Selby up through York to Ripon in our (60ft) boat in August, deliberately picking the time of Neap tides for our return to Selby (it doesn't matter too much about Spring tides going up, just coming back). Although the tides were good for us there had been a fair bit of rain in the Ouse catchment area and on the Neap tide the river flow never changed direction, merely slowed a bit as the tide 'flooded'. Taking the advice of the Lock-Keeper at Selby we waited for a few days because, whilst the Ouse will rise quickly in heavy rainfall, it will also fall again quite quickly. There were a few boats who chose to carry on to Naburn but what that meant was that instead of being carried by the tide for most of the way they had to flog into the current and. according to the Lockie, it took them over 4 1/2 hours to get there. When we travelled a few days later, carried on the almost Spring tide, we were there in just under 3 hours (we don't rush!) and probably used half as much fuel as those who travelled earlier.

You can find out the state of the river on these two sites:

https://www.farsondigitalwatercams.com/locations/york

http://www.gaugemap.co.uk/#!Map/Summary/2057/2172

 

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Useful links for the Ouse trip

https://flood-warning-information.service.gov.uk/station/8208?direction=u

you can access all river level monitoring stations from the map below the level chart

And this will help you plan the trip along the tidal stretch
http://tides.mobilegeographics.com/calendar/year/2671.html

HW at Naburn is about 3 - 4 hours after Hull HW Selby about 1 - 2 but the lockies will provide more precise info.

 

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6 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

You have never seen the pictures of the Kings Arms under water then?

Oh indeed I have and stood nest to the mark on the wall sipping a pint. Doesn't happen as often as some folk seem to think! I was not dismissing the fact that the Ouse is subject to rise and fall above Naburn, simply that I don't think this is as troublesome!

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1 hour ago, Mr Norman said:

Oh indeed I have and stood nest to the mark on the wall sipping a pint. Doesn't happen as often as some folk seem to think! I was not dismissing the fact that the Ouse is subject to rise and fall above Naburn, simply that I don't think this is as troublesome!

Can be if you cannot find the river, these two from dec 2015
The pontoon retaining pole she is leaning in would be around 12ft above her head on normal Summer levels !!
 

n1.jpg

n.jpg

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Can anyone advise on the correct way to arrive at Selby lock (going North)?  Nicholson's suggest that you need to give 24hrs notice to the lock keeper but I can't imagine in this day and age that's still appropriate. I was planning to turn up the day before, moor and wait to be told when we can go. Is this the best way or can I be more scientific e.g with tide times etc?

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1 minute ago, Nick D said:

Can anyone advise on the correct way to arrive at Selby lock (going North)?  Nicholson's suggest that you need to give 24hrs notice to the lock keeper but I can't imagine in this day and age that's still appropriate. I was planning to turn up the day before, moor and wait to be told when we can go. Is this the best way or can I be more scientific e.g with tide times etc?

It is usual with the tidal locks to give notice, the Trent being another example.  What’s wrong with phoning the lock the day before then you know the timing that you are aiming for. 

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Thanks John, nothing wrong at all with giving notice and I will do now if that's what you suggest, I just thought this advice might be out of date.  I'm learning all the time!  

Useful info as we intend to cruise the Trent next year.

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Phoning ahead is a good plan as very occasionally there are more boats booked than the tide window permits. It happened to me earlier this year when I had to put the tidal trip back a day. The bonus being that more than likely you can moor overnight at West Haddlesey instead of Selby - more preferable IMO

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46 minutes ago, Nick D said:

Can anyone advise on the correct way to arrive at Selby lock (going North)?  Nicholson's suggest that you need to give 24hrs notice to the lock keeper but I can't imagine in this day and age that's still appropriate. I was planning to turn up the day before, moor and wait to be told when we can go. Is this the best way or can I be more scientific e.g with tide times etc?

 You are presumably planning to be arriving on the Selby canal and not on the Ouse.

You could just turn up the day before and ask the lock keeper  - after all that would be potentially 24 hours notice. The day before is likely to be good enough even if it's less than 24 hrs.

 

 

 

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