Help re-cementing chimney

[ditchcrawler]

12 hours ago, reg said:

Decent link to a pdf here 

http://www.soliftec.com/Boat Stoves 1-page.pdf

I think you will find that is a recommendation

[reg]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think you will find that is a recommendation

"Stoves installed into boats need to be installed according to BS 8511:2010." 

The info in the pdf are to meet the above standards. 

The main point here is that the OP's fire installation appears to fall short of the required standards.  A required standard to me translates into compulsory

Unfortunately the standards are £190  a copy so I won't be plowing through them. However I would be interested to know what is compulsory for the BSS I built mine to meet EU Standards which I believe are stricter and most of the points in the pdf were, according to my surveyor,  compulsory. 

The one thing I got from the pdf was the use of an insulated chimney I personally don't know of anyone who uses an insulated chimney  but now I am aware of it I would seriously consider it if I was to build another boat, which I'm not about to do by the way. It is a bit confusing in that I'm not aware of insulated chimneys being a required standard and therefore probably fall into the category of advisory. 

Edited October 9, 2017 by reg

[ditchcrawler]

40 minutes ago, reg said:

"Stoves installed into boats need to be installed according to BS 8511:2010." 

The info in the pdf are to meet the above standards. 

The main point here is that the OP's fire installation appears to fall short of the required standards.  A required standard to me translates into compulsory

Unfortunately the standards are £190  a copy so I won't be plowing through them. However I would be interested to know what is compulsory for the BSS I built mine to meet EU Standards which I believe are stricter and most of the points in the pdf were, according to my surveyor,  compulsory. 

The one thing I got from the pdf was the use of an insulated chimney I personally don't know of anyone who uses an insulated chimney  but now I am aware of it I would seriously consider it if I was to build another boat, which I'm not about to do by the way. It is a bit confusing in that I'm not aware of insulated chimneys being a required standard and therefore probably fall into the category of advisory. 

And where did this highlighted edict come from that says they have to be to BS 8511:2010 ?

I would not argue that what the OP has could be deadly but if its not leaking and the rest of the installation complies I can't see what REGULATION demands he changes it.   In the OPs case it would probably fail a BSS inspection on the heat damage to the ceiling, if that is what it is and also how the stove is secured which looks a bit suspect.

I wouldn't have that flue setup in my boat but I can't think of a regulation that would require him to remove it. There is a point in life where one must accept responsibility for ones own safety and not rely on regulation and inspection to do it for us.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Dave Payne said:

Can you point to the BSS part that shows what a stove must be?

I dont think they actually state anything apart from being bolted down and ventilation iirc?

 

Assuming you are right, this brings the BSS further into disrepute. Despite their stupid insistence on trivial stuff like labels being correct, are you saying that death trap stove in the photo would really pass a BSS examination?

[reg]

Actually your not wrong according to the BSS advice here (eta: referring to ditchcrawler post above, forgot to quote it) I stand corrected and also a bit surprised. 

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/stay-safe/solid-fuel-stoves/new-stove-new-chimney/

To take a quote from it

"Follow the stove manufacturer's instructions for installing in a boat, but if these are not available, you can find good advice based upon the BS 8511 Code of Practice on http://www.soliftec.com/Installation.htm" 

So it looks like the BSS is saying it's good advice to follow the standards. Which seems to  imply it's not compulsory. I'm wondering what the BSS examiners standards are on this and what would constitute a fail. 

Edited October 9, 2017 by reg
Clarification

[reg]

21 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Assuming you are right, this brings the BSS further into disrepute. Despite their stupid insistence on trivial stuff like labels being correct, are you saying that death trap stove in the photo would really pass a BSS examination?

You were typing at the same time as me fully agree the BSS in this case appears to have take no stance whatsoever other than to say that it is advisory to meet the standards, which is a big a cop out as you could find. 

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by reg

[Dave Payne]

49 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Assuming you are right, this brings the BSS further into disrepute. Despite their stupid insistence on trivial stuff like labels being correct, are you saying that death trap stove in the photo would really pass a BSS examination?

I have no idea, trawling through the BSS last year i couldnt really find anything about them.

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/268789/ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf

 

The same people that do not enforce CO alarms, just advise....

 

[chubby]

Does it really matter what the regulations state ? Falling back on someone elses standards is foolish if you are standing in front of a stove on your boat , that may well also be your home & it is clearly an accident waiting to happen .

One has to ask oneself " will i "

1 ) rely on rules written in an office somewhere by folk who are seeking to do little else but retain a salary ? 

OR

2) shall i instead rely on my own brain , my own education , my own common sense & accept that I AM RESPONSIBLE for the safety of my boat , my wellbeing and that of those around me "?

For me .. final answer ... is option 2 

At that point i might start gathering more detailed info as to achieving a safe and secure installation . I think however i might get around to doing this before autumn arrives and with it the cold . 

The OP simply needs to ask themselves " this might involve expense - can i afford it " 

& then ask then ask thenselves  " Can i afford not to do it "? 

The whole thing is a shambles . Every last aspect of that stoves installation is a disgrace . The OP is insane if they use it . 

Anyway , im done with this thread . WTF do i care ? As long as no one else comes to any harm then the OP can do what they like . 

I ll bet the indecision is all about money . A few hundred quid to ensure that when u go to bed you wake up in the morning . 

Folk need to take ownership of thier problems and accept responsibility for putting them right . But then responsibility is a dirty word in a society where someone else is always at fault and never ones self .

Rant over - im past caring 

 

 

 

 

[Dave Payne]

3 minutes ago, chubby said:

Does it really matter what the regulations state ?

I would say yes, everybody needs something to work to, something that is safe, something that is enforceable, otherwise we see what we are seing on this thread, people sticking fires together with blue-tac!

I worked to the below, why, coz thats all there is to guide you, and of course some common sense.

http://www.soliftec.com/Boat Stoves 1-page.pdf

[chubby]

Ok 

Agreed . One might want such info when installing .

But using the regs in ones decision process as to whether an existing installation is acceptable or or not is nonsense . One should instead rely on common sense . 

But the thing with common sense is that it isn t 

[reg]

1 hour ago, Dave Payne said:

I have no idea, trawling through the BSS last year i couldnt really find anything about them.

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/268789/ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf

 

The same people that do not enforce CO alarms, just advise....

 

Interesting reading that it looks like the only relevant sections are

8.4.1 Required

8.4.3 Required

8.10.2 Advisory and 

8.10.5 Advisory

You need to read the document as to long to quote here. 

In the case of the advisory 8.10.2 and 8.10.5 being breached then a BSS warning notice is given which is described in short  below

"THE BSS WARNING NOTICE
A BSS Warning Notice will be issued in all cases where an examiner has cause to suspect that
people or property may be or are in ‘immediate danger’ or ‘at risk’ due to faults in installations or
appliances on a vessel being examined.
The purpose of the BSS Warning Notice is to alert the owner or person responsible for the craft’s
condition, that an immediately hazardous defect has been found and secondly to alert anyone
stepping aboard that they could be at risk and should take precautions."

More details in the above link. 

 

So a warning notice can be served but I'm unclear as to what it's power is if any. Seems the owner is informed and visitors should be informed but what if the visitors aren't informed 

 

[Cheshire cat]

I just noticed the fire extinguisher next to the stove. Presumably the OP has some asbestos gloves somewhere that they can wear whilst using the extinguisher!

In its current state that fire does look like a death trap. Don't use it until you can get it fitted properly.