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Help re-cementing chimney


Robbadobdob

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I'm trying to fix my stove chimney and need some advice. The chimney was out of action when I moved onto the boat and I was told I needed to cerement the 4 different sections back together. I did this with 1200c silicon cement but on all 4 sections the cement simply cracked off. I've attached some pics of this. What would you recommend? Am I using the wrong sealant? Previously it was sealed with gasket sealant. Finally, the glass is also coming away, can I seal this with silicon too? Thanks for any help you can give.

sorry for the blue- copied from a Facebook message.

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That has got to be the worst looking work ive ever seen . It is shockingly bad . I hope it has not been used .It is dangerous i expect .  I wonder which part of system this boat is on ..... hmm . I wouldn t like to moor anywhere nearby . 

You need a new flue . One piece of steel . It will need to be cut & welded as necessary to allow for the angles required between stove top & roof collar . 

Otherwise you might die in your sleep when you light it . Worse still - someone else might . Your call .

You need to make fixing this nonsense a priority . It doesn t look like it would withstand force if the boat was knocked in a lock or by another boat . Or if i flicked it with a finger . 

If u dont have  already youre going to need a Carbon monoxide (CO ) detector , or two & smoke detectors 

Use it and you risk your life . Whoever told you to just put it all back together is talking BS . 

If u moor near other boats and use this stove then you are being dangerously irresponsible . 

I make no apologies for sounding harsh as you need to be aware of the seriousness of this situation . Lives are at risk if used . Deaths happen every year from CO inhalation and boat fires . 

ETA :

Im curious about the language used in the  OP . " when i moved on " as opposed to " when i bought "'. I do hope this is not a rental boat . 

I think you can get flues that slot together in sections . I would expect that any sealants involved would go inside the pipework not outside . 

It all looks dangerously knackered anyhow and in need of replacement .

 

Edited by chubby
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A good chandlers or fabricator will make you a one piece steel flue without any joints. Probably about £60. You need to measure and draw it all carefully with dimensions and don't forget to include the extra bits that fit inside the deck/roof collar and the stove. Or just take that flue down and give it to the fabricator - if necessary you can tape the sections together with duck tape in the correct position.  

It definitely needs to be replaced. What sort of condition is your stove in?

Edited by blackrose
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2 hours ago, blackrose said:

A good chandlers or fabricator will make you a one piece steel flue without any joints.

I hear people say things like this... fabricators, woodworkers, and similar, yet I have always found that if I call in and ask for help like this, they either dont take on such small jobs, or say they'll do it in a spare moment, and never get around to it. I've only done it with a couple of local woodworking shops but have now given up, usually finding a way to do stuff myself, or buy ready made.

How do you find these little workshops where you can call in and have a fairly small job done?

I'm in Stretford, Manchester so you would expect there to be some around here, if anywhere.

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I've always managed to find fabricators to do small jobs for me without a problem. A steel gate and trailer fabricators on the river in Staines made me a skin tank a few years ago. I gave them the design and a curved template of the swim that I had first made out of corrugated cardboard and then plywood and I gave them all the fittings. Once they'd done it I brought my boat up outside the yard and they welded it in place for me. The whole job cost less than £150 and I did the plumbing myself. Compare that to the £500 quote I got from Uxbridge Boat Centre + whatever they charge for cranage because they said it wouldn't work if the tank was welded in while the boat was in the water. Utter bollox of course - it works perfectly.

I think part of the problem is that fabricators don't want to talk to people who only have a vague idea of what they want. They need a detailed drawing. If they can see that you have some understanding of what you're asking them for and you can speak their language then 9 times out of 10 they'll be happy to deal with you.

P1000823.JPG

In the end they used 3mm plate because it was easier to curve, which is why they put in the 3 upright supports in case the internal pressure blew the thinner gauge steel out.

Presentation1.jpg

Edited by blackrose
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Hi all,

thanks for the (partly) useful help. No the chimney isn't being used atm, that would be a very bad idea indeed. The flue has been used for years without any problems, unfortunately it took a big knock and the 4 sections came apart. Obviously 1 piece would be preferential but right now I'm looking for ways to seal it back together, my first attempt failed and I was wondering if anyone has any experience sealing it back together and could share some wisdom as to why the cement didn't work.

 

thanks,

R

On 28 September 2017 at 23:59, Mike the Boilerman said:

Hard to get a proper feel for what it happening from the close up photos. Can you post a foto of the whole flue please (including the stove)?

My gut feeling is you need a one piece flue welded up/fabricated with no joints to come apart. 

Here you go

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I too would get a one piece steel one fabricated. Although high temperature silicone may work for a while, as the flue has no support apart from stove and roof collar, it will be susceptible to movement and hence leakage. 

Edited by rusty69
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3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I too would get a one piece steel one fabricated. Although high temperature silicone may work for a while, as the flue has no supportet appart from stove and roof collar, it will be susceptible to movement and hence leakage. 

It also looks extremely close to the lining at that elbow joint. 

  • Greenie 1
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To my eye, the two elbows you've got in your flue are completely unnecessary. That design will increase build up of combustion residues inside the flue and make sweeping the flue more difficult.

I think you should just design a one-piece straight (angled) flue as shown. You will need to have vertical "ferrules" on the ends which fit into the stove and roof collar. This design would also have the added benefit of bringing the flue away from the cabin side because as others have said it's currently too close. You should also fit some combustion-resistant protection around the ceiling where the flue goes through the roof. Some chandlers sell small sheets of Masterboard with a pre-cut hole that goes over the flue, but don't forget the put the thing over the flue before fitting the flue - I did that once! You can paint the masterboard with a heat resistant paint.

When designing the new flue you need to ensure that you can raise the flue up high enough inside the roof collar in order to drop the base of the flue into the stove collar. It usually works in practice but you do need to be careful on that point otherwise you end up paying for a flue that you can't fit! If that happens you can always unscrew the feet of the stove from the floor and slide it around until you can fit the flue in, before sliding the stove back to its original position.

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Edited by blackrose
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My immediate thought is that the stove could be moved a bit more inboard, and a simple one piece vertical flue fitted, with no angles and no complications.

a photo of the whole thing, including the stove, would help to see if there is any reason not to move the stove....

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Thanks very much for the suggestions, I've attached a photo of the stove and the whole chimney. Unfortunately a straight chimney wouldn't work as the stove can't be moved that far forward. Will definitely look into getting a fabricated chimney. In the mean time, does anyone have any suggestions on cementing together?

image.jpg

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7 minutes ago, Robbadobdob said:

Thanks very much for the suggestions, I've attached a photo of the stove and the whole chimney. Unfortunately a straight chimney wouldn't work as the stove can't be moved that far forward. Will definitely look into getting a fabricated chimney. In the mean time, does anyone have any suggestions on cementing together?

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I suppose you could wrap the joints with exhaust bandage and secure with wire, but it would need quite a few bandages I reckon.

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On 06/10/2017 at 20:14, WotEver said:

It also looks extremely close to the lining at that elbow joint. 

Sorry to say I think it would be irresponsible for anyone to give advice on how to cement it together because of the dangers involved with the way it is installed at the moment. Personally I think you need to bite the bullet and get a proper job done as it is at the moment it looks dangerous and any bodge job would also be dangerous. Sorry if it's not what you want to hear but some jobs have to be done correctly. 

I'm also with whatever the Flue looks dangerously close to the wood paneling. 

Just checked and the rule is

The Flue should be at least 3 times the diameter of the Flue away from Combustible material e.g. 5inch Flue should be 15 inches away from wood etc. 

Here's a link

http://www.snhtradecentre.co.uk/flues-fittings/125mm-vitreous-enamel-stove-off-set-pipe.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwmefOBRBJEiwAf7DstIfvlkl4s9444TMYmirrWxz3st4Myj8ykWHcvKgvIpTDY_xSD6ly9BoCTmMQAvD_BwE

Also might be what you are looking for re advice also they have a heavily discounted offset pipe which might suit 

 

Edited by reg
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Just had a look at the photo closely and I'm not sure if there is any fire resistant board behind the tiles, might be wrong but tiles themselves will transfer heat to the boards behind them so are not allowable by themself. 

Hope I'm wrong as don't want to be spending your money for you unless it's essential which, in this case it would be. 

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8 hours ago, reg said:

Just had a look at the photo closely and I'm not sure if there is any fire resistant board behind the tiles, might be wrong but tiles themselves will transfer heat to the boards behind them so are not allowable by themself. 

Hope I'm wrong as don't want to be spending your money for you unless it's essential which, in this case it would be. 

I think the word "allowable" is the wrong word, maybe advisable.

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Jesus, How many things wrong here, the base looks like its about to crumble into bits, the stove doesnt appear to be fixed down, the stove itself looks like it could fall apart, the flue was past its best a long time ago, no gap or fire board behind tiles, guessing the tiles are straight onto the cupboard the other side....

You need to have a good think about this, i understand the nights are getting colder and you want a fire, but that thing looks like a death trap, an accident waiting to happen.

Rip it all out and start again.

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The hearth looks to me like a series of bricks with tiles on top . They might or might not be fixed down . The stove appears to have something wedged under a rear leg presumably to level it up . 

I think this is all perfectly installed  - i retract my ealier comments and all these safety considerations are a bit overstated . Nothing bad is going to happen - it never does .

I think chewing gum would make an ideal sealant for the flue pipe sections internally follwed by duck tape externally . A belts and braces approach - better to be safe than sorry afterall ! 

The tiling and the hearth is completely as it should be & it all looks fine . Anything a bit loose or wobbly can be fixed down by using a paste made from weetabix and hot milk and applied into gaps using a spatula . In my experience this will take 24 hrs minumum to set . .

From November 6th onwards fireworks can bought at bargain prices . I always keep a large stash of fireworks next to my stove as they make ideal firelighters .

I expect a cosy and warm winter will be enjoyed once this simple and cost effective work has been done . 

The above is the answer the OP wants to hear . Chewing gum and weetabix are cheap and  flue pipe , hearths & fireboard are less so . All this fuss & bother about safety is overated . 

Hope this helps 

cheers

 

 

Edited by chubby
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Did anyone mention the scorch marks where Flue goes through roof? 

To the OP I can appreciate that none of the above is what you want to hear but it is all done with the best of intentions that fire installation is potentially lethal. 

Obviously don't know your circumstances but if your intention is to cruise during the winter then don't use that fire. If expense is to much at the moment, obviously I don't know if that is the case or not but, then maybe look at a fixed Base for the winter with an electric hook up and electric fires. Just a thought. 

If you need advice on how the fire should be installed then, as you will be aware by now , there is plenty of advice available here. 

I hope none of this has put you off boating worth sticking with it even if occasionally you get bowled a Googly like now. I'm sure most of us on here have had our boating set backs. Good luck with it hope you can get it sorted. 

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I find myself thinking this stove installation might have been one of the reasons the boat was probably dead cheap in the first place. 

In addition, from the photos there is virtually NOTHING right about this stove. Everything one looks at is dangerous. Whoever issued the BSS (assuming it is licenced) needs 're-training'....

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1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I find myself thinking this stove installation might have been one of the reasons the boat was probably dead cheap in the first place. 

In addition, from the photos there is virtually NOTHING right about this stove. Everything one looks at is dangerous. Whoever issued the BSS (assuming it is licenced) needs 're-training'....

Can you point to the BSS part that shows what a stove must be?

I dont think they actually state anything apart from being bolted down and ventilation iirc?

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