How things can go wrong

[bizzard]

Good job it wasn't the oil filter that unscrewed. When spin on oil filters first appeared on cars, around 1970, Rootes group Hillman Minx and the variations, Singer, Sunbeam ect being one make to start using them, which were inverted, upside down and replaced the old element type. They could be wicked things to get off, folk weren't lubricating the sealing ring at first, not even the maker of new cars it seemed. Often, after trying by hand, strap wrench, chain wench which just twisted up the filters bodyi into a sort of bit of aniseed twist or bashed an old screwdriver through it to use as a handle which also often didn't work either , broke off the body and left the bit of its base still screwed on the mount to be bashed off with old screwdrivers and chisels. Spin on filters were more strongly made then too, heavier, thicker metal.

[Victor Vectis]

4 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

I don't think the Coastguard would be able to help you that far upstream. Further downstream I guess they might be able to call out Humber rescue (not RNLI). http://www.humber-rescue.org.uk/about.php

The same thought has crossed my mind on the couple of times we've been out on the Trent.

We have an anchor, lifejackets and VHF but if anything went wrong who do I call?

I mentioned this to the lockie at West Stockwith and I seem to remember him saying something about RCR keeping a rib at Gainsborough.

(ish) But don't let that put you off the Trent, it's lovely

 

[luggsy]

Just a quick update I am very macanical minded I have had diesel cars/vans all my life ( hate petrol cars ) always serviced them myself never in 40 plus years have I ever had a fuel/oil filter come loose or off ,  I did smear oil on the new filter, we have just been down a few drains on the fens and I was forever cleaning weed out of the weed hatch , one drain I had to pole it out  , so I am thinking all the vibrating with the weed round the prop must have worked it loose , and I must not have tightened it up tight enough, I have now used a strap to tighten it , I have marked the filter so I can keep a eye on it , fingers crossed it won't happen again 

[bizzard]

26 minutes ago, luggsy said:

Just a quick update I am very macanical minded I have had diesel cars/vans all my life ( hate petrol cars ) always serviced them myself never in 40 plus years have I ever had a fuel/oil filter come loose or off ,  I did smear oil on the new filter, we have just been down a few drains on the fens and I was forever cleaning weed out of the weed hatch , one drain I had to pole it out  , so I am thinking all the vibrating with the weed round the prop must have worked it loose , and I must not have tightened it up tight enough, I have now used a strap to tighten it , I have marked the filter so I can keep a eye on it , fingers crossed it won't happen again 

I've never known any spin on filter to unscrew, fuel or oil, and have dealt with many thousand of them over the years.  Make sure your oil filter is tight too.

[luggsy]

Just to add fuel filter had been on for over 700 hrs that's why I think it was the vibration, 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, luggsy said:

Just to add fuel filter had been on for over 700 hrs that's why I think it was the vibration, 

You don't do an engine service very often then, or do you not consider fuel filters to be service items ?

[noddyboater]

2 hours ago, Joe Bourke said:

You did well there young man, a full blown rescue and getting the boat into West Stockwith. Tricky enough with one boat.

Nothing like a bit of excitement on the river, and the old Gardner needed a de-coke.. 

Thanks for the bottle Joe, it was much appreciated. 

[luggsy]

Hi alun engine has  1st filter fuel guard 2nd primary 3rd secondary checked every 50hrs I also dip the fuel tank on a regular basis with the water finding past that turns red no sign of water I also add fuelset boat is only 3 years old , engine oil and filter every 250hrs also gearbox oil at same time barrus shire 45

Edited September 28, 2017 by luggsy
Forgot to add gearbox oil change

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, luggsy said:

Hi alun engine has  1st filter fuel guard 2nd primary 3rd secondary checked every 50hrs I also dip the fuel tank on a regular basis with the water finding past that turns red no sign of water I also add fuelset boat is only 3 years old , engine oil and filter every 250hrs also gearbox oil at same time barrus shire 45

Fairy-snuff, not a typical NB installation then, that's a good set up & more comprehensive that I have on my Lumpy-Water boats

[luggsy]

Alan the fuel guard is a brilliant bit of kit , I changed both fuel filters at 500 hrs both fuel filters looked new ,  engine oil and filter gearbox oil changed every 250 hrs , barrus recommend changing fuel filters every 500hrs but with the fuel guard I am going to change every 1000 hrs as the fuel filters which I changed at 500 & 1000 hrs where spotless I think it's a waste of time & money as I would see any water or dirt in the fuel guard straight away as it has a clear bowl, like I said it's a brilliant bit of kit expensive to buy but should save money in the long run 

[Neil2]

1 hour ago, luggsy said:

Alan the fuel guard is a brilliant bit of kit , I changed both fuel filters at 500 hrs both fuel filters looked new ,  engine oil and filter gearbox oil changed every 250 hrs , barrus recommend changing fuel filters every 500hrs but with the fuel guard I am going to change every 1000 hrs as the fuel filters which I changed at 500 & 1000 hrs where spotless I think it's a waste of time & money as I would see any water or dirt in the fuel guard straight away as it has a clear bowl, like I said it's a brilliant bit of kit expensive to buy but should save money in the long run 

How does that square with the BSS?  I thought all fuel filter bowls had to be metal these days?

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

How does that square with the BSS?  I thought all fuel filter bowls had to be metal these days?

No- they just have to be 'fire resistant', several brands have been tested and the manufacturer confirm compliance so the BSS have no option but to accept them

[Momac]

On 27/09/2017 at 10:36, Alan de Enfield said:

Dialling 999 will alert the Police / Fire Brigade who would probably have to come from Lincoln ( a good half hour away) and would probably not be in a position, or have the equipment to help a boat in the middle of the 'river'.

Calling the Lock-Keeper on Channel 74 (who is only a couple of 100 yards away) who could take whatever action deemed necessary, - it would also alert every other 'equipped' boat in the vicinity who could render immediate assistance, either to tow to the side, or help evacuate the occupants, or even provide fire extinguishers.

I agree calling on ch74 would be the best bet at that location.

Also worth having the lock keepers mobile phone numbers in your phone. Sometimes the lock keeper does not receive on the vhf if they are attending to the lock.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No- they just have to be 'fire resistant', several brands have been tested and the manufacturer confirm compliance so the BSS have no option but to accept them

Here is the BSS section

 

2.12.2 
 
Are all fuel filters inside engine spaces fire resistant?  
 
Check all fuel filters (including drain plugs) located inside engine  spaces are marked or recognised as fire resistant. If not marked or  recognised as being suitably fire resistant, verify this by examining  any presented declaration from the manufacturer or supplier. 
Fuel filters (including drain plugs)  located inside engine spaces must  have intrinsic fire resistance of at  least 2.5 minutes at 600˚C. 

NOTE – all‐metal fuel filters are accepted as being sufficiently fire resistant. 
 
NOTE – fuel filters marked with ISO 10088 are acceptable. 
 

[Neil2]

45 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Here is the BSS section

 

2.12.2 
 
Are all fuel filters inside engine spaces fire resistant?  
 
Check all fuel filters (including drain plugs) located inside engine  spaces are marked or recognised as fire resistant. If not marked or  recognised as being suitably fire resistant, verify this by examining  any presented declaration from the manufacturer or supplier. 
Fuel filters (including drain plugs)  located inside engine spaces must  have intrinsic fire resistance of at  least 2.5 minutes at 600˚C. 

NOTE – all‐metal fuel filters are accepted as being sufficiently fire resistant. 
 
NOTE – fuel filters marked with ISO 10088 are acceptable. 
 

That's interesting, I've been told be at least two examiners they must be metal, thanks for pointing this out. 

[Alan de Enfield]

20 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

That's interesting, I've been told be at least two examiners they must be metal, thanks for pointing this out. 

Several manufacturers are advertising 'clear plastic bottom' filters that they say are compliant - they are advertising in the canal mags.

 

 The secret is to know more than the examiners (not difficult in my experience) - I have reported a couple of examiners to the BSS for putting their own interpretation of the regs, rather than  applying what the regs actually require.

 

Click the BSS link

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/boat-examination/non-private-boats/part-2-inboard-engines/fuel-filters/

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Alan de Enfield

[WotEver]

31 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I have reported a couple of examiners to the BSS for putting their own interpretation of the regs, rather than  applying what the regs actually require.

Did you ever hear any more about the RCD ‘requirement’? Didn’t he also insist on a metal CU too?

[Alan de Enfield]

10 hours ago, WotEver said:

Did you ever hear any more about the RCD ‘requirement’? Didn’t he also insist on a metal CU too?

No - when discussed I was told that any action needed would be taken but I would not be informed of the 'BSS team' decision.

I take that as to mean "nowt will be done, examiners are properly trained and you are wrong"

[Alway Swilby]

22 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You don't do an engine service very often then, or do you not consider fuel filters to be service items ?

The manual for our Beta 43 says to change the spin on fuel filter on the engine every 750 hours. There's also an inline WASP filter / separator which I check every 250 hours. 

[john6767]

2 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

The manual for our Beta 43 says to change the spin on fuel filter on the engine every 750 hours. There's also an inline WASP filter / separator which I check every 250 hours. 

I was going to say that earlier but was not sue, but I believe that is also what our Beta 35 manual says, we also have a WASP filter/separator before the main filter.

When we bought that boat it had done about 700 hours and the fuel filter was the original as it was spray painted green when the engine was sparyed by Beta.  I  now change the filter and clean out the WASP every year, which usually means about 400 hours.

[Victor Vectis]

I thought the service interval for the spin on fuel filter on a Beta was 750 hours too.

With regard to the WASP (water and sludge protection?) filter and the filter element inside...

Are these disposable or a clean and reuse type?

I have to say I've never looked at ours. At service time I drain some diesel out of the bottom and as it's always looked OK I've left it at that.

 

[cuthound]

30 minutes ago, Victor Vectis said:

I thought the service interval for the spin on fuel filter on a Beta was 750 hours too.

With regard to the WASP (water and sludge protection?) filter and the filter element inside...

Are these disposable or a clean and reuse type?

I have to say I've never looked at ours. At service time I drain some diesel out of the bottom and as it's always looked OK I've left it at that.

 

WASP filters are water and sediment filters.

Depending on type they can have replaceable paper filter elements or reusable stainless steel mesh filter elements. 

The paper ones should be replaced every service and the stainless steel ones cleaned out and reused.

More info here.

http://www.separ.co.uk/product/fuel-filters/wasp-filters

[john6767]

4 hours ago, cuthound said:

WASP filters are water and sediment filters.

Depending on type they can have replaceable paper filter elements or reusable stainless steel mesh filter elements. 

The paper ones should be replaced every service and the stainless steel ones cleaned out and reused.

More info here.

http://www.separ.co.uk/product/fuel-filters/wasp-filters

Ours is a mesh filter, I wash it out in diesel.

 

5 hours ago, Victor Vectis said:

I thought the service interval for the spin on fuel filter on a Beta was 750 hours too.

With regard to the WASP (water and sludge protection?) filter and the filter element inside...

Are these disposable or a clean and reuse type?

I have to say I've never looked at ours. At service time I drain some diesel out of the bottom and as it's always looked OK I've left it at that.

I think you need to look at this.  The first time I did ours there was a fair bit of sludge in it, but like the filter that first time it would not have been touched since the boat was built and it had all the muck from during the tank construction in it.  Now each year there is not much in it, but usually a bit of sludge, so well worth cleaning it.  Just be careful with the O ring, and note the order and orientation of the parts when you take them off the securing bolt to clean the bowl.

[Victor Vectis]

Thanks for those replies.

I'm just a bit hesitant to take the WASPy thing apart to find it has a paper filter and not have a new one to put back in.

[john6767]

11 minutes ago, Victor Vectis said:

Thanks for those replies.

I'm just a bit hesitant to take the WASPy thing apart to find it has a paper filter and not have a new one to put back in.

You could always put the existing one back while you wait for a new one to come.