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ID this hardwood :)

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9 minutes ago, BWM said:

Looks like iroko, fairly standard for science lab tops.  

B'locks !. its teak, Utile as a treatment might be better than i know however after 30 years in science labs, and after seeing hundreds of meters of the stuff scraped by by subcontractors refurbishing science labs and replacing it with an ugly composite called TRESPA (who wont let you pinch a bit of the left over benchtop to make a garden table coz its contaminated waste) who ain't really selling it on anywhere nudge nudge wink wink, ITS TEAK

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I am intersted in the advice not to try and plane the timber, and am prompted to ask why?' I regularly plane both Cuban and Honduras Mahogany, from South America, and Sapele which comes from Tropical Africa. and I have no problem with tearing out. The trick is the ensure that the plane iron is razor sharp and preferrably set at a steeper cabinet pitch. it is also important that the plane iron is set for a very fine cut. This can be achieved with a modern Stanley or Record bench plane, but I prefer to use much older planes made in the late 1800's, which have a much finer iron.

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13 hours ago, 36national said:

 

This is because all the nasty chemicals you used to be able to use in chemistry lessons couldn't destroy the fu**er.

B'locks !. its teak,

there's no need to introduce profanity whenever you post.  

Edited by Murflynn
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Two points: iroko dust can be very unpleasant if you get it in your eyes (I found out the hard way when lying under a worktop drilling tap holes).

And I'm probably in a minority of one in not rating Le Tonkinois - we carefully treated our newly made 'bastard mahogany' dog box with about six coats in the workshop. Within a year it had dramatically faded and even peeled in large areas. Sanded back and used Epifanes instead - much better. 

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9 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

I am intersted in the advice not to try and plane the timber, and am prompted to ask why?' I regularly plane both Cuban and Honduras Mahogany, from South America, and Sapele which comes from Tropical Africa. and I have no problem with tearing out. The trick is the ensure that the plane iron is razor sharp and preferrably set at a steeper cabinet pitch. it is also important that the plane iron is set for a very fine cut. This can be achieved with a modern Stanley or Record bench plane, but I prefer to use much older planes made in the late 1800's, which have a much finer iron.

Well it would have been planed originally and by a machine. Excellent things that plane the whole width of the slab in one go. Thing is that Stanley and Record and similar are narrow and unless you are very skilled at using (and sharpening) them they will make tramlines and a general mess of things. Belt sanders and hand held planers also make a mess of wide boards (well they do in my hands anyway)

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11 hours ago, 36national said:

B'locks !. its teak, Utile as a treatment might be better than i know however after 30 years in science labs, and after seeing hundreds of meters of the stuff scraped by by subcontractors refurbishing science labs and replacing it with an ugly composite called TRESPA (who wont let you pinch a bit of the left over benchtop to make a garden table coz its contaminated waste) who ain't really selling it on anywhere nudge nudge wink wink, ITS TEAK

We'll have to disagree on that one, I have several near identical slabs of this inside my boat. As mentioned by Starman, the dust is hideous-akin to mustard gas. Would agree that planing isn't a problem, I remade the runners for the slides on engine room/back cabin by planing some of the offcuts of the interior installations into shape, an excellent finish was achieved. 

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2 hours ago, Bee said:

Well it would have been planed originally and by a machine. Excellent things that plane the whole width of the slab in one go. Thing is that Stanley and Record and similar are narrow and unless you are very skilled at using (and sharpening) them they will make tramlines and a general mess of things. Belt sanders and hand held planers also make a mess of wide boards (well they do in my hands anyway)

I agree that unless they are very old, the boards will have been planed by machine, but that does not mean they cannot be planed manually. A Jack plane, or Jointer,  can leave tramlines, but if a smoothing plane is sharpened correctly ie:- slightly convex, it will not leave tramlines, and will not leave a mess as you suggest. At one time (in the past) the boards would have been given a final overplaning with a toothing plane and then palm sanded to remove any planing marks, but that stage is rarely undertaken these days, except in the most traditional workshops.

You may have gathered that I still do all my woodworking by hand using traditional tools and, having been taught by a Cabinet Maker, can use and maintain them correctly. With the demise of almost all paractical training in schools theses days, the traditional skills will, sadly, be all but lost in another couple of generations

Edited by David Schweizer
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8 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

I agree that unless they are very old, the boards will have been planed by machine, but that does not mean they cannot be planed manually. A Jack plane, or Jointer,  can leave tramlines, but if a smoothing plane is sharpened correctly ie:- slightly convex, it will not leave tramlines, and will not leave a mess as you suggest. At one time (in the past) the boards would have been given a final overplaning with a toothing plane and then palm sanded to remove any planing marks, but that stage is rarely undertaken these days, except in the most traditional workshops.

You may have gathered that I still do all my woodworking by hand using traditional tools and, having been taught by a Cabinet Maker, can use and maintain them correctly. With the demise of almost all paractical training in schools theses days, the traditional skills will, sadly, be all but lost in another couple of generations

Concur absolutely, also, when using the correctly sharpened and set up smoothing plane, to use a circular motion and take a very fine cut.

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If it is from a school laboratory table top, you have to hope it is not from a very old one.

The ones at my former school had had so much free mercury chased across the top of every one, that you tended to find globules of it in holes that has been made with compass points and the like.

Thinking back to my shool, it made a pretty good attempt at trying to kill us, even before we were out of our teens!

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19 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

 

You may have gathered that I still do all my woodworking by hand using traditional tools and, having been taught by a Cabinet Maker, can use and maintain them correctly. With the demise of almost all paractical training in schools theses days, the traditional skills will, sadly, be all but lost in another couple of generations

I do wish I'd learnt those skills - as it is I wouldn't be capable of any competent woodworking without power tools: the compound mitre, table saw and router are my essentials.  

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It is probably Teak. 

Sapele and Utile are very similar to each other with that stripey alternating grain, and, as a joinery apprentice back in the late sixties when we were using a lot of Utile for shopfitting, I always thought that Utile seemed harder to work. 

Mind you, we did only have a standard circular saw blade complete with it's complement of blue spots, due to the gaffer not wanting to fork out for a decent tungsten tipped jobbie!

I can still smell it now-   a combination of burning Utile, burning/slipping drive belt and the puffs of pipe smoke from the old fella's briar.......

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21 minutes ago, starman said:

I do wish I'd learnt those skills - as it is I wouldn't be capable of any competent woodworking without power tools: the compound mitre, table saw and router are my essentials.  

I note from your profile that you are only a year younger than myself, Perhaps you went to a Grammar School where learning to work with your hands was not encouraged. I attended Technical Secondary School which had a suite of workshops where Woodwork, Metalwork, Technical Drawing, Ceramics and Commercial Art (Graphics with a pencil and brush). There was also a separate workshop and yard where building skills were taught. I was indeed fortunate in as much as our Woodwork Teacher had been a Master Cabinet Maker who re-trained after the War, and he basicly put us through the first four years of a trade aprenticeship, leaving out the boring manual labour bits! We learnt, amongst other things, how to produce perfect full, and half secret dovetail joints. Needless to say we all got a grade one in our exams.

Ironicly i still struggle with power tools, and the only ones that I use regularly are electically operated drills and screwdrivers. I occassionally use a router, but still prefer to use wooden moulding planes if possible, and as for things like a table saw, or drop saw, they scare me silly!, So I have some respect for thase who can use them effectively.

Edited by David Schweizer

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You see carpenters and fencers and the like swaggering about brandishing battery drills like demented cow boys weilding a six gun with a pockful of PK screws buzzing them into anything that looks like it needs them, things like hinges, gate fttings and the like. A little while later the screws start pulling out. In my opinion for stuff like this proper tapered wood screws can't be beate. Its the taperedness that does it, with correct size pilot hole they drive in on their tapered threads tighter and tighter like wedges, rock solid.

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2 minutes ago, bizzard said:

You see carpenters and fencers and the like swaggering about brandishing battery drills like demented cow boys weilding a six gun with a pockful of PK screws buzzing them into anything that looks like it needs them, things like hinges, gate fttings and the like. A little while later the screws start pulling out. In my opinion for stuff like this proper tapered wood screws can't be beate. Its the taperedness that does it, with correct size pilot hole they drive in on their tapered threads tighter and tighter like wedges, rock solid.

Agreed, but they are getting harder to find these days, especially steel ones. I have a vast supply of almost all the usefull sizes from 1/2" x 2 up to 4 1/2"x12" including quite a few odd sizes in 5's and 7's. I have a similar stock of tapered brass screws, and have supplied a number of boaters with the odd few in very large sizes.

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2 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

Agreed, but they are getting harder to find these days, especially steel ones. I have a vast supply of almost all the usefull sizes from 1/2" x 2 up to 4 1/2"x12" including quite a few odd sizes in 5's and 7's. I have a similar stock of tapered brass screws, and have supplied a number of boaters with the odd few in very large sizes.

I still have a fairly good stock too. Not so long ago you never saw doors, gates and cupboard doors hanging on and off with loose screws. Once fitted they were on for good with proper wood screws. Over here the fencing and little gates and fittings are all falling to bits with their PK screws popping out. The bloke who did most of it had a fancy bright yellow De Walt drill with go-faster stripes with a big club foot of a battery under the handle.

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They have become very expensive when available, there is a company called screwsline that hold old stock in some less common sizes.

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Just now, bizzard said:

I still have a fairly good stock too. Not so long ago you never saw doors, gates and cupboard doors hanging on and off with loose screws. Once fitted they were on for good with proper wood screws. Over here the fencing and little gates and fittings are all falling to bits with their PK screws popping out. The bloke who did most of it had a fancy bright yellow De Walt drill with go-faster stripes with a big club foot of a battery under the handle.

Yes, normally  1" x 7 in the frame and 1 1/4" x 7  in the door, still available but not in DIY barns.

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23 minutes ago, BWM said:

They have become very expensive when available, there is a company called screwsline that hold old stock in some less common sizes.

Boot Sales can be a good source of traditional woodscrews, especially when someone is clearing ot Grandad's shed and doesn't even know what half the stuff is!! A few years ago I bought about ten full one gross boxes of brass screws,  25p a box for sizes up to 1 1/2" and 50p abox for bigger sizes up to 3 1/2" x 14's  Now that was cheap.

Edited by David Schweizer

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46 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

I note from your profile that you are only a year younger than myself, Perhaps you went to a Grammar School where learning to work with your hands was not encouraged.

Odd view of Grammar schools there, David. 

Richard (O level metalwork, KEGS Aston)

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I confess, I have three battery drils, an Oleo or something, a 4 volt Russel, An Aldi one and a wee Dremel. But my Stanley hand drill gets the most use with wood.  All useful where there's no mains power of course. Trouble is when a battery runs flat just as your drilling a deep hole in a lump of wood and the drill bit won't pull out, one tries to unscrew and release the bit by trying to turn the chuck in reverse by hand, often too stubborn which entails leaving the bit or whole drill growing like a plant out of the lump of wood whilst you try getting the battery off to charge it without snapping off the drill bit. Like a failed Tommy Cooper magic trick.

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1 hour ago, RLWP said:

Odd view of Grammar schools there, David

Richard (O level metalwork, KEGS Aston)

Not where I lived, If you wanted to do Woodwork or Metalwork, you had to go to Technical Secondary School, whilst the Grammer School concentrated on "interesting" stuff like Classics and Latin  :tired:  I could have gone to Grammer School, but chose the Secondary School, and am glad that I did. The only down side was that they did not do A Levels so you had to go to Tech College for those.

1 hour ago, bizzard said:

I confess, I have three battery drils, an Oleo or something, a 4 volt Russel, An Aldi one and a wee Dremel. But my Stanley hand drill gets the most use with wood.  All useful where there's no mains power of course. Trouble is when a battery runs flat just as your drilling a deep hole in a lump of wood and the drill bit won't pull out, one tries to unscrew and release the bit by trying to turn the chuck in reverse by hand, often too stubborn which entails leaving the bit or whole drill growing like a plant out of the lump of wood whilst you try getting the battery off to charge it without snapping off the drill bit. Like a failed Tommy Cooper magic trick.

Ah well there is a lesson there, don't use flat bits for drilling large holes in wood. I always use Jennings or Solid Centre augers in a hand brace for big holes in wood, and also for deep small holes, I have a large set going down to 1/8" diameter.

Edited by David Schweizer

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3 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

I note from your profile that you are only a year younger than myself, Perhaps you went to a Grammar School...

I did indeed: we did have woodwork lessons so I learnt a few basics but never progressed beyond a teapot stand and a plant dibber (with a botched mortice & tenon joint as I recall).

All such teaching was abandoned pre GCE in favour of Latin and the science labs save for those less intellectually able who were allowed to carry on. 

Such was the importance post-war Britain gave to craft skills and engineering. 

But I couldn't saw straight with a hand saw at 13 and I still can't - power tools have given me the tools, as it were, to enjoy woodworking (and fit out our own boat). 

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4 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

Boot Sales can be a good source of traditional woodscrews, especially when someone is clearing ot Grandad's shed and doesn't even know what half the stuff is!! A few years ago I bought about ten full one gross boxes of brass screws,  25p a box for sizes up to 1 1/2" and 50p abox for bigger sizes up to 3 1/2" x 14's  Now that was cheap.

We'll found, I keep looking but no luck as yet. One type i'd like to get my hands on is the screws that hold the 'D' section onto the interior of a Woolwich back cabin, to reinforce the area where the range is situated. They are only about an inch long with a giant head, if you know of a supplier please let me know! 

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3 minutes ago, BWM said:

We'll found, I keep looking but no luck as yet. One type i'd like to get my hands on is the screws that hold the 'D' section onto the interior of a Woolwich back cabin, to reinforce the area where the range is situated. They are only about an inch long with a giant head, if you know of a supplier please let me know! 

If you can get one out and post  a picture with dimensions, I may be able to help. i put a box full of very fat countersunk woodscews into a charity aution last year. I know who bought them and i doubt that he has used many so i could try and claw a few back if he still has them.

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4 hours ago, RLWP said:

Odd view of Grammar schools there, David. 

Richard (O level metalwork, KEGS Aston)

 

3 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

Not where I lived, If you wanted to do Woodwork or Metalwork, you had to go to Technical Secondary School, whilst the Grammer School concentrated on "interesting" stuff like Classics and Latin  :tired:  I could have gone to Grammer School, but chose the Secondary School, and am glad that I did. The only down side was that they did not do A Levels so you had to go to Tech College for those.

In my school when it came to making O Level choices at 14, the A stream were expected to take Latin, the B Stream German and the C and D Streams 2 from Art, Engineering Drawing and Woodwork. Anyone whose choice deviated from this was called in before the Head of Middle School to explain their choice!

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