Boat dimensions and navigateable canals

[Mick in Bangkok]

Still getting familiar with the canal systems and although I have found web based canal maps that show where boats of certain lengths can and cannot go due to various lock lengths and even where width restrictions apply I am now reading posts that suggest that a boats draft also restricts where some can and cannot go epically the older deeper vessels.

Is there such a map that shows canal depth where the deeper draft boats would be prohibited from going.

Also are there many issues with tunnels and bridge holes that would deter some narrow boats.

Cheers Mick

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

Is there such a map that shows canal depth where the deeper draft boats would be prohibited from going.

Not that I have ever seen.

There is a spreadsheet of minimum dredging depths for each canal but this is not adhered to in any meaningful manner.

Older boats with 3 foot+ draft will have problems in a few locations, boats under 3 foot, will have relatively no problems, and boats under 2 foot 6 inches are 'go anywhere'.

The canals are generally U-shaped.

One of the major problems for all boats is that the 'dredged depth' is the main channel (running up the centre of the canal)- rarely are they dredged to the sides - except at 'proper' visitors moorings. Normal 'alongside / towpath moorings can be very difficult to get close enough alongside to easily step off, and a 'board' is of assistance.

 

 

[dmr]

One of the big attractions of life on the cut is that its not all controlled, regimented and documented, and a long journey can involve a bit of ingenuity and a sense of achievement on arrival.

Low bridges are often arched so boat profile is a big factor, as well as height (and water level).

Water depth is variable, some spots even silt up after heavy rain and may or may not get dredged. Its also rather relative, the bottom is often not hard but made of a silt of progressive stodginess, and it all changes all the time. Some boaters are upset if they just touch the bottom, others regard messing about for an hour to get through a shallow bridge hole as part of the fun. One foot ten will get you anywhere with ease, three foot will likely get you almost everywhere but you will need to put in some effort in a few places. Three foot six is more of an adventure.

..............Dave

[Mick in Bangkok]

I would not be put off by some hardship or occasional groundings but would not wish to be unduly restricted in where one might go.

I prefer the older boats but am coming to relies that these are more likely to have deep drafts so would need to consider this come the time I might get on the water.

[Alan de Enfield]

The following are extracts from C&RTs dredging targets (a bit like my old school report - "sets himself extremely low targets which he consistently fails to achieve")

Dredging Depths :

Grand Union = 1.1m

Lancaster = 1.0m

Leeds & Liverpool = 1.2m

Llangollen = 1.0m

Mon & Brec = 0.9m

Trent & Mersey = 1.1m

 

[Hornblower]

Regarding bridges and tunnels I remember a very small tunnel on the Droitwich Canal. I couldn´t even stand and look over the roof (its also very short). You can´t have anything but the pole and the plank on the roof. Another very small tunnel with low headroom is the Gosty Hill tunnel on the Dudley No 2.

Edit: But I can´t tell you much about the depth, as the hireboats don´t go very deep.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Hornblower

[Rob-M]

Times of the year have an impact on depth as well.  Tree lined sections tend to have problems with depth this time of year due to falling leaves.  When we went up the Caldon earlier in the year we grounded in several of the bridges and had to reverse back and take a run up to get through knocking the revs off as the stern got close to lift it up over the amount of leaves and other debris.  These are all things you will learn to cope with.

[Naughty Cal]

22 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The following are extracts from C&RTs dredging targets (a bit like my old school report - "sets himself extremely low targets which he consistently fails to achieve")

Dredging Depths :

Grand Union = 1.1m

Lancaster = 1.0m

Leeds & Liverpool = 1.2m

Llangollen = 1.0m

Mon & Brec = 0.9m

Trent & Mersey = 1.1m

 

The stated max draught for the Fossditch is 5ft. As you have found out yourself they have not achieved that one 

[Dave_P]

1 hour ago, Hornblower said:

Regarding bridges and tunnels I remember a very small tunnel on the Droitwich Canal. I couldn´t even stand and look over the roof (its also very short). You can´t have anything but the pole and the plank on the roof. Another very small tunnel with low headroom is the Gosty Hill tunnel on the Dudley No 2.

Edit: But I can´t tell you much about the depth, as the hireboats don´t go very deep.

Both the Droitwich M5 tunnel and Gosty are fairly low but my boat with a highish cabin-top, roof boxes, solar and various rooftop tranklements will go through both.  She won't go through Froghall or Standedge though.  The thing to watch with the M5 tunnel is the river level changes.

[ditchcrawler]

Here is the M5 and Froghall

[john6767]

That must be low water level on the Droitwich, the only time we did it there was perhaps 8 inches clearance.  The lowest we have been through is a bridge on  the 16 foot drain on the Middle Levels, perhaps 2 inches clearence.

[ditchcrawler]

50 minutes ago, john6767 said:

That must be low water level on the Droitwich, the only time we did it there was perhaps 8 inches clearance.  The lowest we have been through is a bridge on  the 16 foot drain on the Middle Levels, perhaps 2 inches clearence.

Yes and we have done the same. A tractor stopped to see if we would get stuck or decapitate ourselves. I will try and find the photo

 

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Yes and we have done the same. A tractor stopped to see if we would get stuck or decapitate ourselves. I will try and find the photo

 

Does this help ?

 

A Tractor :

[Neil2]

FWIW we came down the Soar a few years ago in the company of a boat that drew 3' according to the owner.  He said getting stuck/going aground was an almost daily occurrence.  

   

[dmr]

We often get an audience on the really low bridges, best thing to do is leave the tall back cabin chimney up till the very last moment, then just before they shout calmly remove it and lay it on the slide. (having previously checked that its not stuck)

................Dave

[ditchcrawler]

19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Does this help ?

 

A Tractor :

It was very like that actually

 

[dmr]

I wonder if you take the engine out of a smaller John Deere tractor and fit it into a narrowboat ?

...............Dave

[john6767]

31 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Yes and we have done the same. A tractor stopped to see if we would get stuck or decapitate ourselves. I will try and find the photo

 

This is the lowest bridge on the 16 ft drain, screen grabbed from a video from my phone propped up on the hatch.  I was of course on the floor with a finger steading the tiller at this point.  You can see a small cruiser on the left, he was stopped there as he could not get under the bridge.

 

[Neil2]

On 9/25/2017 at 14:55, Mick in Bangkok said:

I would not be put off by some hardship or occasional groundings but would not wish to be unduly restricted in where one might go.

I prefer the older boats but am coming to relies that these are more likely to have deep drafts so would need to consider this come the time I might get on the water.

Not necessarily...

Tom Rolt's "Cressy" which was originally a horse drawn boat drew a mere 1'6" IIRC.   

But, if you read "Narrow Boat" there are numerous accounts of the boat being blown into the side by strong crosswinds.  You do want a decent draft, 2-2'6" ideally.  We had a lot of fun in our little Springer Waterbug that could almost float on a damp lawn but she was a nightmare in windy conditions.  

[ditchcrawler]

Here is us on the ML note the rubber duck radio areal and the tiller pin

 

[Mick in Bangkok]

5 hours ago, Neil2 said:

But, if you read "Narrow Boat" there are numerous accounts of the boat being blown into the side by strong crosswinds.  You do want a decent draft, 2-2'6" ideally.  We had a lot of fun in our little Springer Waterbug that could almost float on a damp lawn but she was a nightmare in windy conditions.  

Ok, this is another consideration on the matter of draft

[Naughty Cal]

6 hours ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

Ok, this is another consideration on the matter of draft

We have the worst of both worlds on that score. Bugger all draft at the bow, that can float in an egg cup, yet 3ft draft at the R Send with the aluminium props being the lowest point 

[Naughty Cal]

We thought that this was probably the closest we had come to not getting under a bridge on the Broads:

But not a few days later we cut it even finer when exiting the Broads!

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

We thought that this was probably the closest we had come to not getting under a bridge on the Broads:

But not a few days later we cut it even finer when exiting the Broads!

A few every year don't make it.

[Naughty Cal]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

A few every year don't make it.

We had to put a few more revs on then we would have liked to squat the back end down. 

Didnt like it I must admit.

When we are down there in a few weeks we will make sure that we time it better with the tides this time. Mind you we won't be heading out to sea with the hire boat so won't be as tight for time to meet tidal windows!