Buying a new boat

[Sea Dog]

9 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Unfortunately it isn't that cut and dried. There are plenty of boats out there with no GI and no corrosion, and vice versa. There is more to hull corrosion than anyone fully undertands. On another thread here someone mentions a stretched boat where the original boat has virtually no corrosion, but the ten feet of newly inserted hull is heavily corroded. That cannot be down to a missing GI or anodes.

Perhaps more likely to be bio (I refer to the stretched boat issue), as in Microbiologically Influenced Corrosion (MIC).  I wonder if quite a lot of the corrosion we attribute to Galvanic action is actually MIC? It may go some way to explaining what's behind your second sentence.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Sea Dog
Refer bit

[Neil Smith]

21 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Perhaps more likely to be bio (I refer to the stretched boat issue), as in Microbiologically Influenced Corrosion (MIC).  I wonder if quite a lot of the corrosion we attribute to Galvanic action is actually MIC? It may go some way to explaining what's behind your second sentence.

Or crap steel in the stretched part.

Neil

[Sea Dog]

56 minutes ago, Neil Smith said:

Or crap steel in the stretched part.

Neil

Yep. Or twas ok but already rusty on those bits before blacking. Funny it's patchy like that though - perhaps it says something in a chinese script?

[DandV]

1 hour ago, Neil Smith said:

Or crap steel in the stretched part.

Neil

When I was involved in underground steel fuel system storage it was well documented that in a mixed system of old and new tanks that the new tanks would fail first. Something in the steel aging process made the old steel more anodic (or was it cathodic) so the new tanks ended up being sacrificial anodes to protect the old.

Don

[SadieF]

Hello everyone. Hope you're well. I'm back with more questions. Still looking. Anyhow, I wondered what are your opinions on Springers, I'm looking at an old one, 1976, with a marine ply cabin. Because of this there's gunwales. Would this be an issue when cruising if i need to quickly get down to the other side of the boat - especially if on my own. Also what are opinions on wooden tops? Maintenance, and do they need to be replaced frequently? Also is there anyone out there who has a wooden cabin boat and can tell me if it makes any difference to heating it, and condensation? Thanks in advance. 

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, SadieF said:

Hello everyone. Hope you're well. I'm back with more questions. Still looking. Anyhow, I wondered what are your opinions on Springers, I'm looking at an old one, 1976, with a marine ply cabin. Because of this there's gunwales. Would this be an issue when cruising if i need to quickly get down to the other side of the boat - especially if on my own. Also what are opinions on wooden tops? Maintenance, and do they need to be replaced frequently? Also is there anyone out there who has a wooden cabin boat and can tell me if it makes any difference to heating it, and condensation? Thanks in advance. 

If your budget is still 21K plus, you can do a lot better than a 1976 wooden topped springer in my humble opinion.

[SadieF]

59 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

If your budget is still 21K plus, you can do a lot better than a 1976 wooden topped springer in my humble opinion.

Well, they're asking for much less yes. £14k. My budget is 21k yes - but i am checking out cheaper options too, as I'm borrowing most of this cash, and that is scary. 

*edit to last post * meant to say there's no gunwales *

[rusty69]

12 minutes ago, SadieF said:

Well, they're asking for much less yes. £14k. My budget is 21k yes - but i am checking out cheaper options too, as I'm borrowing most of this cash, and that is scary. 

*edit to last post * meant to say there's no gunwales *

14k still sounds silly. 

[Alan de Enfield]

28 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

14k still sounds silly. 

Remove the '1' and its somewhere near where it should be.

A  40 year old Springer with a wooden top is scrap value unless it is really, really something special or unique.

[SadieF]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Remove the '1' and its somewhere near where it should be.

A  40 year old Springer with a wooden top is scrap value unless it is really, really something special or unique.

34 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

14k still sounds silly. 

What is the reason for the wooden top. Isn't this a bit unusual for a Springer? 

Funnily enough 2 Springers with wooden tops popped lately. The other one is 1970, the guy doesn't know what type of paint was used for blacking 5 years ago, but advises it's probably ok for another couple of years. and is asking 22k. .... Now... even with my limited knowledge ... this seems a little odd. 

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, SadieF said:

What is the reason for the wooden top. Isn't this a bit unusual for a Springer? 

Funnily enough 2 Springers with wooden tops popped lately. The other one is 1970, the guy doesn't know what type of paint was used for blacking 5 years ago, but advises it's probably ok for another couple of years. and is asking 22k. .... Now... even with my limited knowledge ... this seems a little odd. 

 

Springers were the ’peoples boat’ ( Lada / Skoda equivalent) and were built using whatever material could be sourced at the time, mostly they were built from re-cycled scrap metal plate, with the most common being cut up ‘gasometers’ (maybe you are too young to remember the great big gas-holders in all cities/towns)

Because of the variation in steel used there is a huge variation in metal thicknesses with, commonly, the ’smaller’ length boats being built with 3/16” steel (about4.5mm), today’s insurers  are reluctant to insure boats below 4mm thickness, and as you can imagine, the steel that was 4.5mm thick 40+ years ago, and has been left in the water ever since is likely to have lost some of its thickness.

A Typical Gasometer - they were HUGE

 

[SadieF]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Springers were the ’peoples boat’ ( Lada / Skoda equivalent) and were built using whatever material could be sourced at the time, mostly they were built from re-cycled scrap metal plate, with the most common being cut up ‘gasometers’ (maybe you are too young to remember the great big gas-holders in all cities/towns)

Because of the variation in steel used there is a huge variation in metal thicknesses with, commonly, the ’smaller’ length boats being built with 3/16” steel (about4.5mm), today’s insurers  are reluctant to insure boats below 4mm thickness, and as you can imagine, the steel that was 4.5mm thick 40+ years ago, and has been left in the water ever since is likely to have lost some of its thickness.

A Typical Gasometer - they were HUGE

 

Thanks for this. It's very helpful to know how they're built and the reasons behind why people have been cautioning me about Springers. 

[MtB]

I too would say a wooden topped Springer was worth £4k tops, and only if the wooden top is in tip-top condition. 

A wooden top might expected to last for a decade or two before needing replacing at enormous expense and disruption. How old is this wooden top?

[BruceinSanity]

8 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Because of the variation in steel used there is a huge variation in metal thicknesses with, commonly, the ’smaller’ length boats being built with 3/16” steel (about4.5mm), today’s insurers  are reluctant to insure boats below 4mm thickness, and as you can imagine, the steel that was 4.5mm thick 40+ years ago, and has been left in the water ever since is likely to have lost some of its thickness.

Though it's been claimed on here that the ex-gasometer steel was so pickled in coal tar that it's lasted remarkably well.

I agree a wooden top is to be avoided like the plague by anyone on a restricted budget, the maintenance costs and the risk of separation from the hull are just woeful.

[alan_fincher]

10 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Springers were the ’peoples boat’ ( Lada / Skoda equivalent) and were built using whatever material could be sourced at the time, mostly they were built from re-cycled scrap metal plate, with the most common being cut up ‘gasometers’ (maybe you are too young to remember the great big gas-holders in all cities/towns)

 

I thought this claim had largely been dismissed in the past as mostly untrue?

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 

I thought this claim had largely been dismissed in the past as mostly untrue?

Maybe - but I have never seen anyone claiming otherwise.

[Neil Smith]

I thought it was true of the early boats, but later ones used new steel but don't know when it was.

Neil.

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, Neil Smith said:

I thought it was true of the early boats, but later ones used new steel but don't know when it was.

Neil.

We are discussing 1970's wooden topped boats, which as they did not start building boats until the late 60s must surely meet the 'early' definition.

 I don't have this book, but apparently it does have a lot of detail on Sam's boat building endeavours

"Boat Builders of Market Harborough" by Bob Hakewill

http://hnbc.org.uk/boatbuilders-market-harborough-bob-hakewill

[Movin' on]

On ‎28‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 20:47, SadieF said:

Hello everyone. Hope you're well. I'm back with more questions. Still looking. Anyhow, I wondered what are your opinions on Springers, I'm looking at an old one, 1976, with a marine ply cabin. Because of this there's gunwales. Would this be an issue when cruising if i need to quickly get down to the other side of the boat - especially if on my own. Also what are opinions on wooden tops? Maintenance, and do they need to be replaced frequently? Also is there anyone out there who has a wooden cabin boat and can tell me if it makes any difference to heating it, and condensation? Thanks in advance. 

It might stretch your budget a bit but the one that's just popped up at Rugby Boat sales looks worth a closer look