Alternator ok, travel pack and victron???? Help

[Smudge201]

So

im not new to boating, but my ex husband did most of the engine and electrical maintenance work on the boat. 

 

I notcied 2 weeks ago that I had no 240 ring main whilst I was using the engine. It intermittently worked then stopped altogether. 

 

My initial thoughts were the secondary alternator, so I stripped it off the engine and took it to the same auto electricians as before. I’ve picked it up today and it’s had a new bearing casing fitted and the wires re soldered but bar that it was bench testing fine. 

 

I have put it back on the engine today with some hope hope that everything would come back to life but it hasn’t.  

The travel pack isn’t running and neither is the victron  

 

Ive had some mutters from my ex earlier in the year that the main core cable from the alternator into the victron might need replacing, however this was never done. 

The victron is all working and functioning fine when used from a portable generator so i don’t think that is the issue. 

 

The boat is 20 years old and as far as I’m aware the cable has never been replaced. 

 

Does anyone have any advice as to whether it’s likely to be the cable and if so how do I remove it and where is best to find a replacement. 

 

Many thanks in advance 

[dmr]

Dont fully grasp what your saying, and I know nuffin about Victrons. Have you got two alternators plus the travelpower alternator? Was it a 12volt alternator or the TravelPower alternator that you took to the fixers?

Is the big cable you refer to the big cable from the TravelPower alternator?

My best guess is that its the brushes in the TravelPower alternator that need fixing.

Do you have a green light/red light/no light on the TravelPower switch?  and I assume the TravelPower box is black rather than silver?

Any chance of some photos?

..................Dave

[nicknorman]

Hi there. I think we will need a bit more detail and / or photos. Remember, you know what you are talking about and can see the items, we can't!

so you talk about a victron. That is a make. But what model are we talking about? I'm guessing it's a Combi but guessing leads to confusions!

you mention a secondary alternator but so you mean the domestic 12v alternator, or the Travelpower high voltage alternator (with braided cable connecting it to the Travelpower box)?

either way, I wouldn't expect any sort of direct connection between an alternator and the Victron so until we know more detail, I'm loath to suggest anything.

what should happen is that the Victron (assuming it's a Combi) acts as an inverter taking battery power and converting it into mains, or takes the Travelpower's mains and passes it through. So if there is no mains at all, it means something up with the Victron. But, as I said, more detail please before we get too carried away!

[Smudge201]

Hi, wow responses already that’s awesome 

so to clarify

its the high power alternator I’ve had tested. The 12volt is still working ok. 

Ive used the auto shop before and the guys there are good. I’ve had the brushes on the same alternator done about 2 years ago which is why I assumed it was an alternator problem again given the intermittent working before failure. 

 

I am a livaboard so it does get some useage  

 

The high power alternator runs to an Electrolux travel power box which then in turn feeds the combo victron. On the front it says 12/1500/50. 

 

Ive posted some pics of the units installed. 

I currently have my portable generator running and as you can see the victron is working fine from the shore line so I don’t think there is any issue with this. 

 

The main cable i refer to is the grey one grey one in the picture to the travel power box. This runs directly from the high power  alternator I’ve had tested and re installed. 

 

When the engine is running, I have no green light to say that it’s generating, and on the travel pack it normally hums slightly when it’s running and you can see the fan spinning through the top vent which it’s not. 

Let me know if you have any further suggestions or tips 

 

thanks 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rusty69]

Is the TP belt tensioned correctly?

[nicknorman]

Ok thanks for the extra info. Before we go onto the Travelpower I'm a bit puzzled by your original point about no ring main. Normally I would expect the Victron to power the ring main from the batteries, in the absence of shore power/generator, or the Travelpower. Can you clarify if the Victron is indeed still powering the mains sockets from the batteries when the engine and generator are off?

I think you probably have an older version of the Travelpower than me, so take the following with that note of caution. And in fact DMR I think has the same version as you so believe him over me!

Firstly, and I know this is probably a silly point, you do know that there is an on/off rocker switch on the bottom of the Travelpower box? It is on, isn't it!

my Travelpower requires 12v power from the engine ignition switch to get going. So I would have thought  that regardless of the alternator, when you turn on the ignition and the TP, there should be some sign of life from the TP box. If not, I would suspect the loss of the 12v supply from the ignition switch to the box. If the box seems dead despite getting 12v from the engine supply, I would suspect the box rather than the alternator.

Finally, although I'm generally a DIY sort of chap, I did have some problem with our TP alternator recently that I couldn't fix. I used the services of Ed Shiers of Four Counties Marine and would heartily recommend him. Last resort, obviously, if we can't sort it out!

[Smudge201]

Hi rusty69

i believe so, I’ve tensioned it the same as it was last time it was removed and both belts have the minimal slack. 

If it stops raining I’ll try and pop a video on of that side of the engine running, but it all looks good to me

thanks 

[WotEver]

4 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I used the services of Ed Shiers of Four Counties Marine and would heartily recommend him.

That was about to be my suggestion if the obvious things don’t work. 

http://www.fc-marine.co.uk/Electrolux_Travel_Power.html

[Smudge201]

Thanks nicknorman for your help 

yes I can use the victron without either the generator or engine and the 240ring main is live. 

I use it every morning for the coffee machine so I know it’s good. 

I didn’t know there was a rocker switch, obviously I haven’t switched anything off, and It was working then wasn’t with no influence from me 

 

I’ve just popped a mirror under the box to take a photo ( I’ve added it to the thread) as it’s slightly awkward in a cupboard. I can’t see a switch anywhere though. 

I see what you mean about the travel pack functioning. I’m not sure where the power feed comes from if I’m honest. 

I suspect that this isn’t going to be an issue I can resolve by myself, but I am on an rcr engine course this weekend so I will pick their brains before making a call out. 

 

Thanks again

[nicknorman]

16 minutes ago, Smudge201 said:

Thanks nicknorman for your help 

yes I can use the victron without either the generator or engine and the 240ring main is live. 

I use it every morning for the coffee machine so I know it’s good. 

I didn’t know there was a rocker switch, obviously I haven’t switched anything off, and It was working then wasn’t with no influence from me 

 

I’ve just popped a mirror under the box to take a photo ( I’ve added it to the thread) as it’s slightly awkward in a cupboard. I can’t see a switch anywhere though. 

I see what you mean about the travel pack functioning. I’m not sure where the power feed comes from if I’m honest. 

I suspect that this isn’t going to be an issue I can resolve by myself, but I am on an rcr engine course this weekend so I will pick their brains before making a call out. 

 

Thanks again

Ok so the issue is only with the TP.

There were various iterations of the TP box, I see you have a "black box" one whereas I have a "silver box" one. The bottom of mine looks quite different from yours. Sorry for being confusing!

Do you know if the brushes in the alternator were checked/replaced? I say that because badly worn brushes can cause the TP to become intermittent, and I believe it can also damage the box.

when DMR comes back he may have some better ideas.

Edited September 21, 2017 by nicknorman

[Smudge201]

Hi

yes the brushes were ok and it’s been bench tested as well with no issues 

 

im wondering about the loom, I’ve noted from the link to the engineer that the looms can become damaged and worn, and that he in fact cuts them back and reconnects them. 

 

If im honest this is the only part of the alternator that looks worn, the connector is a plastic clip type and it’s showing signs of wear. 

 

I think i will have to bite the bullet and just get it looked at. 

 

[WotEver]

Yes, Ed re-makes the alternator end connections if necessary. It’s also essential that the braid on the loom cable is securely ‘earthed’ to the case of the black box but I can’t see this coming adrift all by itself. 

Sadly, if the black box itself is faulty I don’t believe that anyone repairs them. Ed will advise. 

[dmr]

If the TravelPower fan is not turning when the engine is on then its likely a problem within the black box (expensive) or as Nick says, a failure of the 12v supply.

The TravelPower box will have two 12volt supplies going into that green connector on the bottom. One is on all the time, one is only on when the ignition is on. Both should go via a fuse. See if you can find these fuses and measure 12volts on them. Or assuming you do have a little multimeter (and are happy to use it) you could unplug that green connector and measure the supply voltages. The pinouts are in the TP manual. If you don't have the manual and want to measure the voltages then I will try to help.

I am assuming that your TP is the same model as mine, It looks very similar.

...............Dave

[dmr]

Did your mender man replace the brushes and/or slip rings in the alternator? I have been told that if the brushes fail that this can sometimes cause a transistor failure within the black box.

I believe that Cox Automotive have the skill and parts to fix at least the common failures within the black box. They did mine for me a few years ago. They are not cheap but the black box TravelPower is a desirable machine and well worth fixing.

Check them 12volt supplies first.

I assume you have a switch somewhere that glows green when the TP is on and happy, and red when its not happy?

...............Dave

[dmr]

oooh, and one more thing, if you are pretty sure its the black box, not the 12v supply, then it might be better to go directly to Coxs. I have no first hand experience of the other TravelPower experts but have heard that at least one of them will only fix the alternator and take the box to Coxs, so you might end up paying both Coxs and a middleman.

................Dave

[BruceinSanity]

41 minutes ago, dmr said:

oooh, and one more thing, if you are pretty sure its the black box, not the 12v supply, then it might be better to go directly to Coxs. I have no first hand experience of the other TravelPower experts but have heard that at least one of them will only fix the alternator and take the box to Coxs, so you might end up paying both Coxs and a middleman.

................Dave

But be aware that Cox's will want to see the whole thing, alternator, cable and box.

[Smudge201]

As far as I’m aware the alternator is all good. I’ve used the same people the last few times so I’m putting my trust on them really but I’ve no reason to doubt them. 

 

Ive just had a look at a few cables and tried to trace back where they run. Electrics is not my strongest point. Ive wiggled a few cables and re set the isolator 12 volt switch. 

 

I then re started the engine and everything came on. Generator light and travel pack. 

Ran for about 5 mins before cutting off. 

So im thinking initially I’ve got a cable issue somewhere. One of my board neighbours has rung someone he knows and they are coming out Monday to take a look and hopefully diagnose. 

 

Fingers crossed its a cable issue and an easy and cheap resolve 

 

thanks again 

[WotEver]

If you wiggled cables and reset the isolator and then it worked for a short while then I’d be confident that Nick & Dor have hit the nail on the head that it’s the 12V supply to the black box that’s at fault. 

Is your isolator one of those with the red plastic key that you can remove? If so, then that’s likely to be the culprit. They’re truly rubbish. 

[Smudge201]

I’m thinking it’s a cable issue defo but I’m no good with electrics so I’m not going to be able to fix it myself I don’t think. 

Yes the isolator switch is one of those plastic red key ones. It feels nasty to turn it as well. 

I wasn’t aware there are other options but potentially I will have to have that replaced 

 

hopefully if it is a cable issue it should be cheap in comparison to a travel pack issue though 

 

thanks again 

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, Smudge201 said:

Yes the isolator switch is one of those plastic red key ones. It feels nasty to turn it as well. 

I wasn’t aware there are other options but potentially I will have to have that replaced 

 

Bluesea. BEP. To name two decent manufacturers of switches 

[Smudge201]

Thanks rusty

I have just had a quick look, the blue sea ones certainly look more substantive and up to job. Thanks for the recommendation 

[dmr]

Its almost certainly not the isolator, if it was nothing would be working, not even your lights, and its quite possible that the Travelpower is getting its main supply direct from the battery via a fuse anyway. Note that some of the better isolators are huge compared to the redkey version so you might have a space issue fitting them. There are versions similar in size to the redkeys, but of better quality.  The redkeys are certainly not the best but i've been putting 120amps through mine on a regular basis and its still doing ok, They are good for quite a few years, but its certainly worth keeping a spare in the spare parts box. I have got some better quality ones but they are currently still some way down the todo list.

..............Dave

[Smudge201]

I actually don’t think the isolator is working at all which is concerning it should isolate the batteries and effectively shut off all electrics no??

 

when I turn the key I still have power as my radio carries on regardless. 

 

Aside from that I’ve come to my limits I think. Hoping the man coming Monday will be a fix it man 

[cuthound]

If your radio is a car type one, it may be connected directly (via an in-line fuse) to the battery, so it doesn't forget your favourite stations when you turn the isolator off.

[Smudge201]

It’s not, it’s a 12 volt one plugged into the 12volt ring main on the boat