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kendo

Bukh DV36 owner?

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Hiya.

we're replacing our DV20 with a DV36, and would be very grateful if owners of DV36's could post a photo of the support that their engine is resting on. we have access to a welder, but hoping our existing support/sump tray is up to the job.  a picture of an existing installation would be tremendously helpful.  

 

oh... it's going into a  53ft coles morton narrowboat. 

thankyou.

 

Edited by kendo

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2 hours ago, kendo said:

Hiya.

we're replacing our DV20 with a DV36, and would be very grateful if owners of DV36's could post a photo of the support that their engine is resting on. we have access to a welder, but hoping our existing support/sump tray is up to the job.  a picture of an existing installation would be tremendously helpful.  

 

oh... it's going into a  53ft coles morton narrowboat. 

thankyou.

 

Ahh fab engine I was lucky enough to have one in a boat some years ago. No piccies but I am sure Tony will be along soon so you are lucky as I think he has one in his boat and he is also a mine of information :cheers:

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3 hours ago, kendo said:

Hiya.

we're replacing our DV20 with a DV36, and would be very grateful if owners of DV36's could post a photo of the support that their engine is resting on. we have access to a welder, but hoping our existing support/sump tray is up to the job.  a picture of an existing installation would be tremendously helpful.  

 

oh... it's going into a  53ft coles morton narrowboat. 

thankyou.

 

You do know that Nick Alsop at TW Marine worked on the Coles Morton fleet of hire boats (with Bukh engines) years ago?  Nick is the guy to talk to - if you can get hold of him - don't bother emailing but if you can get him on the phone he's one of the most approachable and helpful guys I know.

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Quote

Ahh fab engine I was lucky enough to have one in a boat some years ago

heard nothing but good things about them.

Quote

Tony will be along soon

great. hope he still has it. he's been a big help previously.

 

spoke to Nick Alsop a while back. we're a coles morton hireboat too. he rebuilt our gearbox (told us it was pre 1980). for some reason, our boat was sold on with a DV20, instead of the more usual DV36. don't know why... but it left the boat a little underpowered. that's why i'm fairly confident (fingers crossed) a DV36 will fit OK.   thanks for the reminder though.

 

 

Edited by kendo
format/speeling

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20 hours ago, kendo said:

heard nothing but good things about them.

great. hope he still has it. he's been a big help previously.

 

spoke to Nick Alsop a while back. we're a coles morton hireboat too. he rebuilt our gearbox (told us it was pre 1980). for some reason, our boat was sold on with a DV20, instead of the more usual DV36. don't know why... but it left the boat a little underpowered. that's why i'm fairly confident (fingers crossed) a DV36 will fit OK.   thanks for the reminder though.

 

 

I guess you already know this but the DV24 has quite a bit more poke than the DV20 but exactly the same footprint.  In fact it is the same engine with a different cylinder head.  The difference is not in the out and out power, but the torque band of the 24 is better and will drive a bigger prop.

Having said that I would go for the DV36 but if for some reason it won't fit all is not lost.  

Only problem these days with Bukh is I believe they are now fitting PRM mechanical gearboxes rather than the (very expensive) ZF Marinegear.  I think even the 36 only has the option of a PRM 120 but I may be wrong.  It's only an issue if you are buying a new engine.

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Here you go if the "drop your file here" works.

As the 36 is a three cylinder there may be a length issue unless you have enough shaft length in front of the gland/thrust block/Aquadrive to chop one cylinder's worth off the shaft.

The beds are just typical horizontal inverted angle iron as found on most boats. Should be easy enough to drill for the new mount positions. However you also need to consider the bed height compared with the centre of the shaft and gearbox couplings. Its easy enough to pack the beds if they are too low with steel but if they are too high cutting and welding will be required.

DV36s in canal boats are normally fitted on extra soft mounts with an Aquadrive to take the thrust. Different strength mounts between back and front.

No need for heart exchanger cooling, the direct raw water cooled version works just fine when connected to a header and suitably sized skin tank.

The water cooled exhaust manifold has been taken out of circuit to try to minimise low speed/power smoking, hence the fire board on top. Nick or his Dad told me that Bukh tried everything to stop the smoking but were not able to. The engine is as clean as a whistle when running under power as they are deigned to - not passing moored boats on tickover. That's always a danger with a small capacity direct injected engine.

PS. This photo was taken before I converted it to heat a calorifiier. Now the black hose running from the thermostat housing to the right has been replaced by a pair of thicker hoses running forward to and from the calorifier in the back cabin.

 

boateng.jpg

Edited by Tony Brooks

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On ‎18‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 20:04, Neil2 said:

I guess you already know this but the DV24 has quite a bit more poke than the DV20 but exactly the same footprint.  

yeah, we did look at the pros and cons of the DV24, neil2. it looks nice a nice improvement. as a 'drop in' replacement, it would have been considerably less faff to install. but it would still have been underpowered for what we are asking it to do. thanks for the thought, though.

On ‎18‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 20:31, Tony Brooks said:

DV36s in canal boats are normally fitted on extra soft mounts with an Aquadrive to take the thrust. Different strength mounts between back and

thanks for the reply, Tony. your 'bed' doesn't look too dissimilar to ours, which is good for the confidence levels. cheers. we don't have an aquadrive. but there is a good bit of shaft down there, and all the measurements stack up (so far). the DV20 raised supports will have to be cut off, so we already have a welder lined up for any fiddly/new bits.

on the issue of feet, where can i purchase "different strength mounts". i was under the impression that Bukh just did 'rubber feet for the DV36'. (all one size/strength). ?

thanks for your help. much appreciated.

 

 

Edited by kendo

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You really should talk to Nick at TW Marine. I think the DV36s they supply are fitted with soft mounts and for optimum life they need an Aquadrive. If you do not have one I can see no reason not to solidly mount it as long as you get the alignment spot on but confirm with Nick.

The mounts all look the same but  understand the rear ones are stronger than the front ones. They are non-adjustable so you have to shim the engine feet   without a two element flexible coupling.

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cheers for the advice, Tony.   

the new engine is coming from Dorchester, so i feel awkward about sounding out somebody i didn't purchase it from.

it comes with a number of (no cost) optionals, which now better informed, i can discuss with the vendor.    thanks for that.

because of the expense and age of the boat, if possible, i think we will scrub round the aquadrive, if possible.

(in november, we'll also be craning, surveying, plating and blacking. all of which will spank the wallet a bit).

direct mounting

sorry for my ignorance, but does this mean without the rubber feet?  

or 'direct mounting' as our DV20 was? (straight to shaft, via plastic coupler, without aquadrive).

 

 

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Direct engine foot to engine bed with no rubber in between although hardwood pads can be used between foot and bed. The alignment would be done by shims between the foot and bed/wooden block. f you get it right then a flexible coupling is not needed but as you have one it may as well stay. It may damp the torsional oscillations a little but I doubt if the horrible plastic thing will do much but it may as well stay.

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On ‎04‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 10:02, Tony Brooks said:

Direct engine foot to engine bed with no rubber in between although hardwood pads can be used between foot and bed. The alignment would be done by shims between the foot and bed/wooden block. f you get it right then a flexible coupling is not needed but as you have one it may as well stay. It may damp the torsional oscillations a little but I doubt if the horrible plastic thing will do much but it may as well stay.

ahh.. Thanks for clearing that up. the welder asked if it would be going straight on the bed, or on wood. which surprised me. but now i understand. my concern with doing this, is that it would make the whole boat shake more. would that be the case?   i noticed that the rubber feet on the DV20 were mostly there to stop it shaking around so much. but assumed they also reduced vibration through the hull?    if you were mounting this engine, which method would you choose?  rubber feet, or direct?   the saving of 277 english pounds is attractive, but not if the boat is going to shake in neutral.

i was going to renew the plastic thing in november, because it's done many miles (and six years).  do i need a Bukh specific 'flexible coupling', or are they standard issue kit?  the marine engineer who helped us on our first refit is no longer available, so i really appreciate the advice Tony. cheers..    

 

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As I understand it the DV36 has internal revolving balance weights (harmonic balancers)  that go some way to countering the unbalanced forces produced by an engine so it should be smoother than other three cylinders.

With or without the plastic "flexible" coupling a solidly/rigidly mounted engine will shake the boat about if the shaft alignment is not all but perfect. Your coupling and other single element flexibles can only absorb some small degree of angular misalignment, if there is a greater angular misalignment or if there is ANY radial misalignment then you are very likely to get vibrations. With flexible feet the engine will jump about a bit, without the whole boat may vibrate.

You ask what I would do - the answer is neither option you outline. I would fit flexible mounts and an Aquadrive. If that were not possible I am not sure what I would do. I would probably see if I could find a flexible coupling that accepted angular and radial misalignment but was short enough to  replace the plastic one and then fit rubber mounts. Otherwise I think I would not use rubber mounts but then I can (nowadays given time) align the engine to the shaft so I could ensure its spot on.

There is no way I can give any assurances about shaking in neutral unless I have personal experience of a solidly mounted DV36 and I do not have. I would comment that at certain revs in neutral we do get a degree of vibration that is occasionally enough to rattle china in the cupboard or the stove pan supports but nowhere near as much as our friends BMC 1.8 - that stored plates with kitchen paper between them.

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Hi Tony. Just popped in to thank you for taking the time to explain what is involved. Thankfully, an engineer is coming out of semi-retirement to assist us in getting it in properly. feeling much more confident after your explanations though.  Appreciated.

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