Interesting Pulley at Atherstone Top Lock

[Graham and Jo]

I saw this pulley at Atherstone and was trying to figure out what it did. One of the lock keepers told me that it was to help get boats out of a basin that used to exist at right angles to and just above the top lock. I'm still not quite sure how that worked as the gate seems to be in the way. Anyone know?

Cheers Graham

[RLWP]

I would say it was to guide the line from a horse when starting a boat out of the lock. The towpath curves away from the lock at that point

Richard

[Graham and Jo]

3 minutes ago, RLWP said:

I would say it was to guide the line from a horse when starting a boat out of the lock. The towpath curves away from the lock at that point

Richard

I did wonder about that but felt the pulley wouldn't stop the rope rubbing on the heel post of the gate. There are also two holes in metal plates ( one on either side) that look like mounts for something in front of the gates which would be ideal points for pulleys. The lock keeper  thought they were something to do with the paddles but I doubt that.

Graham

[RLWP]

The line would pass the on lock side of the heel post, with the other end attached to the anser pin

My guess is they would have started the boat out of the lock, flipped the line off the pin and then picked the boat up again as it reached the towpath nearer the bridge

There was a lovely display of working a boat with a horse at Parkhead last year

Richard

[Graham and Jo]

That makes sense. I hadn't thought of going on the other side. Thanks Graham

[Dave Payne]

with the bridge in place on the towpath side I would imagine a straight line wouldn't have worked due to the angle.... But I cant see what use it would have ben with a full size boat going out the lock as the front of the boat would have been past this pulley.

 

the lock keepers theory sounds better looking at the old photo.

 

 

[Pluto]

This pulley on Bingley 5-rise was used for pulling boats out of the upper into the lower chamber, with the horse walking in the opposite direction to the boat. There is also a hook on the bridge above the middle lock at Johnsons Hillock which was used for the same purpose.

[RLWP]

16 minutes ago, Dave Payne said:

with the bridge in place on the towpath side I would imagine a straight line wouldn't have worked due to the angle.... But I cant see what use it would have ben with a full size boat going out the lock as the front of the boat would have been past this pulley.

The line is connected to the anser pin which is at gunnel height towards the back of the boat (the big hooky thing)

 

10 minutes ago, Pluto said:

This pulley on Bingley 5-rise was used for pulling boats out of the upper into the lower chamber, with the horse walking in the opposite direction to the boat. There is also a hook on the bridge above the middle lock at Johnsons Hillock which was used for the same purpose.

 

Of course, I had forgotten that you could make the horse walk the other way down the towpath! That makes far more sense. Same process only the horse walks back down the flight giving a longer pull

Richard

 

Edited September 17, 2017 by RLWP

[Ray T]

Out in the tin tent at the moment. I will ask Mike when I see him later this week.

[RLWP]

Here you go:

http://www.horseboating.org.uk/gallery/gallery42/

Quote

Polly at the top lock, pulling in the opposite direction to that of the boat, using the ground level pulley. The towline had been attached to the T-stud at the stern. Photo: Rick Muir

Polly is starting the day boat out of the top lock at Parkhead. The boat drifted out and was then turned by crew using poles before being drawn back into the lock and down the flight

Richard

Edited September 17, 2017 by RLWP

[Graham and Jo]

3 hours ago, RLWP said:

Here you go:

http://www.horseboating.org.uk/gallery/gallery42/

Polly is starting the day boat out of the top lock at Parkhead. The boat drifted out and was then turned by crew using poles before being drawn back into the lock and down the flight

Richard

I guess that would be a handy thing to do to get the boat out of the lock and then turned with poles to enter the basin. I'm glad I asked! 

Cheers Graham

[Rick-n-Jo]

5 hours ago, RLWP said:

Here you go:

http://www.horseboating.org.uk/gallery/gallery42/

Polly is starting the day boat out of the top lock at Parkhead. The boat drifted out and was then turned by crew using poles before being drawn back into the lock and down the flight

Richard

Oh look, my photo! Parkhead 2012 I think. I was "assisting" the demo ( had to splice up some new traces for the harness after a breakage scattered bobbins as I recall)

As said above, the towline was attached the the back end, and the  horse pulled in the opposite direction to start the boat out of the lock at a brisk pace into the basin. I had a long line on the front T stud. As soon as the stern cleared the lock the ellum was put hard over, once the boat had started to swing I took a turn of the fore end line round a strapping post. Boat then performed a neat 180 and was pulled straight back into the lock for the return trip. Worked a treat!

[bizzard]

They could be discarded or ejected Beta crank shaft travel power belt drive pulleys.

[alan_fincher]

52 minutes ago, bizzard said:

They could be discarded or ejected Beta crank shaft travel power belt drive pulleys.

Best answer yet!

[Derek R.]

20 hours ago, RLWP said:

The line is connected to the anser pin which is at gunnel height towards the back of the boat (the big hooky thing)

 

Of course, I had forgotten that you could make the horse walk the other way down the towpath! That makes far more sense. Same process only the horse walks back down the flight giving a longer pull

Richard

 

 

I think you will find the anser pin is at the bottom of the image. The big hook is the tunnel hook.

[RLWP]

1 hour ago, Derek R. said:

 

I think you will find the anser pin is at the bottom of the image. The big hook is the tunnel hook.

Thank you Derek, it's not really my field. I was pointing out there are places to attach a line to a boat that are not at the front, or on the mast. I was aware that there are various bits with different names and I was taking a risk in naming one. I guessed the wrong one!

Richard

[Athy]

12 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Thank you Derek, it's not really my field. I was pointing out there are places to attach a line to a boat that are not at the front, or on the mast. I was aware that there are various bits with different names and I was taking a risk in naming one. I guessed the wrong one!

Richard

...is the correct anser.

[MtB]

On 18/09/2017 at 06:20, Derek R. said:

 

I think you will find the anser pin is at the bottom of the image. The big hook is the tunnel hook.

 

And swerving off topic, what is the purpose of the anser pin, please? I've never understood what its for. 

There is a line attached to it in the above photo.

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

And swerving off topic, what is the purpose of the anser pin, please? I've never understood what its for. 

There is a line attached to it in the above photo.

Ansers on a postcard(has that one already been done yet?)

Edited September 18, 2017 by rusty69

[Ray T]

9 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

And swerving off topic, what is the purpose of the anser pin, please? I've never understood what its for. 

There is a line attached to it in the above photo.

If you tie breasted boats just fore and aft the butty will surge fore and aft. Using the anser pin and tunnel hook on the motor and butty a X of ropes can be used similar to springs. Yotties use springs when in port or tieing along side another boat. Fore and aft ropes keep the boats side by side springs help cut down independant fore aft movement. Also to assist with towing working breasted up, boaters often took the butty's mast rope to the bow T stud on the motor. The anser pin was also used when strapping a boat into a lock.

Another use, when a tug  towed a "train" of horse boats through a tunnel or otherwise the anser pin / tunnel hook of  one butty would  use a Y of ropes from the boat in front to the bow T stud of the boat behind, thus keeping the tow rope clear of  the ellum. The Barratts used this method when towing two  buttys behind Rocket when delivering coal from the Moira Cut.

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Ray T

[alan_fincher]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

And swerving off topic, what is the purpose of the anser pin, please? I've never understood what its for. 

There is a line attached to it in the above photo.

Not a terribly clear picture, but anser pins on both boats are in use here.

When travelling breasted up, two lines are used at the back, each connecting the anser pin on one to the corresponding dolly on the other.

This means that when pulling one takes the strain, and when trying to stop, the other one then comes in to play.  This results in far less movement between the two boats, and if tied tight, both are forced to stay with back ends more or less permanently lined up -the geometry, (other than inevitable stretching of the rope!) makes anything else impossible.

I now have one line with an eye splice on each end that is exactly the right length, already attached to one anser pin, so breasting up is up only involves dropping the other end over a dolly, and using just one rope to make the equivalent connection.  That one needs to be a longer rope that you can tie, in order to keep things as tight as possible.

[MtB]

Thank you Alan and Ray. It is much clearer now!

[Heartland]

Ah, but looking at older images of Atherstone Top Lock and the basins associated- could it be for of use for assisting craft into the lock. Attached is a image from the RCHS Hugh Compton Collection showing basin on the towpath side and opposite. Atherstone was the terminus of the Coventry Canal before the canal was completed to Fazeley and the basin had a warehouse for the merchandise trade. Coming out of this basin and making a turn to descend the locks no doubt required assistance. C Faulkener was the photographer

 

[Athy]

What a good photo - from the 1950s perhaps? It's unusual for ther to be so much going on in such a shot, I wonder if it was posed.

The butty's name appears to start with a J and looks a bit like Jenningsworth (which sounds unlikely), the lettering is a bit too vague to make out properly.

[Heartland]

It is 1958, The original is now with Pluto, maybe the card, the postcard size photograph is mounted on, has more detail