Jump to content

Galvanic Isolator Cable


Larentia

Featured Posts

43 minutes ago, smileypete said:

says Sterling do an ABYC standard one but I don't know if they have an LED status monitor, if not I'd rather go with one that does.

From Sterling website

The new range also offers two LED warning lights. The two warning lights indicate the following:

1) To indicate if there is a break through fault, ie the earth voltage has exceed the ability of the device to protect the boats system ( very rare this would ever be the case )
Unit rated to sustain full fault + 20% current for 24 hours at 50 deg C & not exceed 90 deg C

2) Total failure due to massive short circuit way beyond the products ability to protect, and the product has failed and the boat and personnel are in danger. If a boat and shore power systems have normal conventional safety devices ( Fuses-trips etc ) installed its simply not really possible to destroy this product under any fault condition without some other underlying event or an incorrectly rated product on the circuit. The over engineered aspect of this product cannot be overstated.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Because the ABYC spec requires the unit to fail safe, Sterling GIs which comply don’t require a status monitor. The cheaper ones which don’t comply with that spec do have a status monitor. 

https://sterling-power.com/collections/zinc-savers/products/zinc-savers-galvanic-isolators?variant=897122451

So the Sterling ones that are ABYC complaint start at 292 quid?Not far off the cost of an isolation transformer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

So the Sterling ones that are ABYC complaint start at 292 quid?Not far off the cost of an isolation transformer.

Very true. To make a GI that ‘won’t fail’ is extremely expensive. 

There are several ways to approach stray current erosion - you can ignore it, you can fit an IT on the boat, you can have an IT which you lift off the boat, you can fit a cheap GI, you can fit an expensive GI, you can have a cable mounted GI. You makes yer choice and fits yer preference. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, smileypete said:

Well if you really want your narrowboat to be ABYC compliant, why not build the entire thing to their standards? :)

I think you are missing the point. Europe has standards by which boats are built. The RCD. But it's pretty vague about GI standards, except that it shouldn't fail open circuit. If one can buy GIs built to that standard fine, but I don't think you can. The next best thing for a GI is an ABYC compliant one. Surely this concept is not hard for a clever chap like you to grasp!?

2 hours ago, WotEver said:

Because the ABYC spec requires the unit to fail safe, Sterling GIs which comply don’t require a status monitor. The cheaper ones which don’t comply with that spec do have a status monitor. 

https://sterling-power.com/collections/zinc-savers/products/zinc-savers-galvanic-isolators?variant=897122451

No, the status monitor is more to do with whether the earth line potential is sufficiently far away from hull potential to make the diodes conduct. Applies no matter how fat the diodes are!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

No, the status monitor is more to do with whether the earth line potential is sufficiently far away from hull potential to make the diodes conduct. Applies no matter how fat the diodes are!

That ain’t wot Sterling say...

Quote

Recent upgrades in the new A.B.Y.C. have removed the need for a monitoring system on the zinc saver as long as, if the unit was to fail (which in the excess of 500,000 of the older version sold with 0% failure rate ), the internal devices must fail in such a way as to continue to ensure the safe connection of the earth circuit. Having spent a lot of money on a new mono silicon block to ensure the unit will perform as per the new specification and many hrs testing by UL laboratories, the new Pro Save FS (see next page) is now fully certified as a fail safe device and as such no longer needs any monitoring system. This ensures a simpler and lower installation cost for this new product.

Edited by WotEver
Added some boldness
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, WotEver said:

That ain’t wot Sterling say...

There's monitoring, and there's monitoring. Monitoring for a failure - maybe not. Monitoring for too much voltage on the earth line - definitely a good thing.

So it doesn't need monitoring on the grounds of risk to humans. It does need monitoring on the grounds of rrisk to steelwork!

Anyway, as you well know, Charles will say whatever is necessary to justify his products!

Edited by nicknorman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

I think you are missing the point. Europe has standards by which boats are built. The RCD. But it's pretty vague about GI standards, except that it shouldn't fail open circuit. If one can buy GIs built to that standard fine, but I don't think you can. The next best thing for a GI is an ABYC compliant one. Surely this concept is not hard for a clever chap like you to grasp!?

So far I haven't seen credible reports of a decent GI failing open circuit on a narrowboat in use - FACT - which leads me to think they are perfectly safe enough.

And like I say before, with a boat based isolation transformer, the steel hull has no connection to shoreline earth, therefore no protection from chafed shorelines - FACT - therefore less safe than a decent galvanic isolator.

American standards are often written to protect the standards writers from ambulance chasing lawyers, unless BIG business is involved, in which case they can outgun the lawyers so the standards may be rather lax... this helps explain why american marina moorings don't have RCD protection and swimmers can get electrocuted, tragically.

Edited by smileypete
Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, smileypete said:

So far I haven't seen credible reports of a decent GI failing open circuit on a narrowboat in use - FACT - which leads me to think they are perfectly safe enough.

 

Neither have I, but then I haven't particularly looked. And a live short to earth is hopefully a rare event anyway. However in the absence of any other standard, the ABYC is the only standard to protect us against a dodgy manufacturer putting a pair of 1N4001s inside a large box with fins!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, smileypete said:

The safeshore ones with LED status monitor should be pretty decent, as Tony says Sterling do an ABYC standard one but I don't know if they have an LED status monitor, if not I'd rather go with one that does.

Personally I'd only mandate an isolation transformer over a GI for a narrowboat where the boat will be left unattended on shoreline for months on end, with no one to keep an eye on the GI status LEDs.

As for the OP, maybe there's a reasonably knowledgeable friend/neighbour that could help install a galvanic isolator if not confident to do the job herself, that said the safeshore helpline seems to be pretty good by all accounts, maybe worth phoning them up and see what they say?

Something worth mentioning in passing is that a boat built from poor quality steel is going to be more vulnerable to rust, and an iso transformer or GI isn't a cure-all for that.

Thanks Pete, sooo you'd say that the safeshore onboards are better? Which one if so? Thank you for your comments btw. I don't understand the talk about meters & alerts, more so I just want to fit one so it's done. My boat is 11yrs old, Stowe Hill. In a marina for winter then out next Spring, possibly to more shoreline power. TBH, I'd fit the cable type one at the boat end & cover it with the cable itself. I don't think it would be noticeable and I don't believe the other people on this thread posting about it being stolen. My aerial, which is always on my roof, has been there for 3yrs and nothing has been taken from anywhere else. Just another example of certain people on this forum being overly grumpy & cynical?!

Edited by Larentia
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Larentia said:

TBH, I'd fit the cable type one at the boat end & cover it with the cable itself. I don't think it would be noticeable and I don't believe the other people on this thread posting about it being stolen. My aerial, which is always on my roof, has been there for 3yrs and nothing has been taken from anywhere else. Just another example of certain people on this forum being overly grumpy & cynical?!

So fit the cable one then. Why even ask?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Larentia said:

I don't think it would be noticeable and I don't believe the other people on this thread posting about it being stolen. My aerial, which is always on my roof, has been there for 3yrs and nothing has been taken from anywhere else. Just another example of certain people on this forum being overly grumpy & cynical?!

How very rude. Another one to add to my list of people not to waste my time trying to help in future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

How very rude. Another one to add to my list of people not to waste my time trying to help in future.

Oh for goodness sake, expressing my opinion isn't being rude & I didn't mean to be.  These forums can be grumpy & cynical. I simply don't think that said cable would be stolen. I have a higher opinion of my fellow boaters. Blimey. How sensitive?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Typical case of OP wishes to do something and anyone who suggests it’s not a good idea is ‘overly grumpy and cynical’ and he ‘doesn’t believe them’. 

Why bother asking about it if all you want is a pat on the back saying what a good idea it is?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Typical case of OP wishes to do something and anyone who suggests it’s not a good idea is ‘overly grumpy and cynical’ and he ‘doesn’t believe them’. 

Why bother asking about it if all you want is a pat on the back saying what a good idea it is?

Oh bless you. Calm yourself down dear. I'm female by the way. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Larentia said:

Oh for goodness sake, expressing my opinion isn't being rude & I didn't mean to be.  These forums can be grumpy & cynical. I simply don't think that said cable would be stolen. I have a higher opinion of my fellow boaters. Blimey. How sensitive?

Expressing an opinion isn't necessarily rude. Certainly, challenge others opinions by pointing out the flaws and using rational alternative arguments. But expressing the opinion that you don't believe the people who offer alternative views to yours, and any such person is also grumpy and cynical, is rude. If you have that opinion well I suppose you are entitled to it, but if you express it publicly you are rude, and it certainly isn't the way to make people want to help you in the future. Anyway, no matter, we have the measure of you.

46 minutes ago, Larentia said:

I'm female by the way. 

I don't believe you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

Expressing an opinion isn't necessarily rude. Certainly, challenge others opinions by pointing out the flaws and using rational alternative arguments. But expressing the opinion that you don't believe the people who offer alternative views to yours, and any such person is also grumpy and cynical, is rude. If you have that opinion well I suppose you are entitled to it, but if you express it publicly you are rude, and it certainly isn't the way to make people want to help you in the future. Anyway, no matter, we have the measure of you.

I don't believe you.

I don't know much about galvanic isolators so I asked folk if they thought that the cable is as good as the type that can be installed inside a boat. I'm not best at electrics so the plug in type is an option that doesn't involve paying an electrical or engineer to fit one. Please forgive me Lord for not agreeing that a cable of this type would be stolen for that is the extent of my wrong-doing. 

As for your insult as concerns my gender, you just carry on being sexist if it entertains you.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Larentia said:

I don't know much about galvanic isolators so I asked folk if they thought that the cable is as good as the type that can be installed inside a boat. I'm not best at electrics so the plug in type is an option that doesn't involve paying an electrical or engineer to fit one. Please forgive me Lord for not agreeing that a cable of this type would be stolen for that is the extent of my wrong-doing. 

As for your insult as concerns my gender, you just carry on being sexist if it entertains you.

 

As I said, no matter, we have the measure of you.

 

well, silly bickering aside and actually trying to be helpful, the point is that when you ask for advice on a forum such as this you will get some good advice, some bad advice, and some irellevant advice. It's up to you to pick up what is good and what is bad. For the irrelevant advice, you can either stamp your feet and insult those who give it to you, or simply let it wash over you / ignore it. I suggest that if you do the former, you will be considered an ungrateful arrogant self-important pain in the arse and people will be disinclined to help you further. If you do the latter, people will have no reason to dislike you and will be inclined to help you further. Up to you, but I can see the latter might be hard if you think you are owed professional (ie paid-for) advice on a free forum.

Edited by nicknorman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Larentia said:

Thanks Pete, sooo you'd say that the safeshore onboards are better? Which one if so? Thank you for your comments btw. I don't understand the talk about meters & alerts, more so I just want to fit one so it's done. My boat is 11yrs old, Stowe Hill. In a marina for winter then out next Spring, possibly to more shoreline power. TBH, I'd fit the cable type one at the boat end & cover it with the cable itself. I don't think it would be noticeable and I don't believe the other people on this thread posting about it being stolen. My aerial, which is always on my roof, has been there for 3yrs and nothing has been taken from anywhere else. Just another example of certain people on this forum being overly grumpy & cynical?!

Either way I'd get one with an LED status monitor. Given the plug in version costs £60 more, perhaps a suitably skilled neighbour could install the cheaper wired in version one in return for a nice bottle of wine, the install instructions are here:

http://www.safeshoremarine.com/Instructions G170sm.pdf

Failing that a good boatyard electrician or boat electical person should be able to quote to install the wired in one, maybe ask the marina if they have one, or who does their wiring. Or someone like River Canal Rescue may know someone suitable in your area. Maybe someone here can recommend someone in Warwickshire?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, smileypete said:

Either way I'd get one with an LED status monitor. Given the plug in version costs £60 more, perhaps a suitably skilled neighbour could install the cheaper wired in version one in return for a nice bottle of wine, the install instructions are here:

http://www.safeshoremarine.com/Instructions G170sm.pdf

Failing that a good boatyard electrician or boat electical person should be able to quote to install the wired in one, maybe ask the marina if they have one, or who does their wiring. Or someone like River Canal Rescue may know someone suitable in your area. Maybe someone here can recommend someone in Warwickshire?

That's fab, thank you Pete. 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.