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Johny London

Fitting a Webasto

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I've decided to go for a Webasto heater - as I really can't spell the other type ;) It will be for water and central heating.

I'm sure someone can kindly point me to a guide with everything I need to know.

My main questions are...

1. Do you need to add a 2 way valve as per domestic heating in order to select between hot water and heating?

2. Do you need an expansion vessel - I've seen an install with one.

3. I've seen a lot of different kits around - what do I need with it? Is there separate pump or something?

4. Different controller options - lcd panels etc, I might like to get something that later on I could control remotely via phone app or something. But if it's a hassle I'll skip that for now.

5. Best place to fit it - I want to leave room for a generator (one day please!) in the engine bay.

Once again, thanks :)

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If you drop me a P.M. with an email address I will send you a PDF of the Webasto marine install manual, it covers all the above questions and a lot more.

Specifically Though 1) no. 2) it is the best way but you can use a header tank if you wish. 3) the narrowboat kit has all you need 4) many controllers are available all of which can be retro fitted including the Thermo Call remote system. 5) Engine bay is best. The size of Webasto will be governed by the radiator load but a Thermo top C is usually more than adequate.

 

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Indeed, a header tank is fine but a pressurised system is better.

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Ah - I'm familiar with header tank (open vented?) and pressurised (as with a combi boiler) from my central heating tinkering over the years.

So the Webasto can be fitted in either manner of system then?

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On ‎15‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 17:38, Johny London said:

I've decided to go for a Webasto heater - as I really can't spell the other type ;) It will be for water and central heating.

I'm sure someone can kindly point me to a guide with everything I need to know.

My main questions are...

1. Do you need to add a 2 way valve as per domestic heating in order to select between hot water and heating?

2. Do you need an expansion vessel - I've seen an install with one.

3. I've seen a lot of different kits around - what do I need with it? Is there separate pump or something?

4. Different controller options - lcd panels etc, I might like to get something that later on I could control remotely via phone app or something. But if it's a hassle I'll skip that for now.

5. Best place to fit it - I want to leave room for a generator (one day please!) in the engine bay.

Once again, thanks :)

1 I just used a lever valve on the cylinder/calorifier return. One to balance the heating/hot water and one to shut off the hot water heating in depth of winter to give priority to heating but don't forget to open the lever to work the boiler hard soon after.

2 can be used on both as said. I have a car header tank on my system!

3. Heating pump is built in and 12 volt. If an ebay kit a gas tight exhaust and the copper fuel line with around 2mm internal bore.

4 All sorts available.

5, Mine is in my trad engine bay but above the swim above the engine mounted on the side of the boat. This is the original photo with old exhaust/ non gas tight exhaust. I soon installed the cylindrical one from another make heater which was around £75-100. Do not copy the installation as may not conform to regs. 

6 Install 6kw of radiators as they like to work hard with no thermostatic radiator valves.

Unfortunately mine has coked up and is off for cleaning under warranty. I don't use it that often as I have a boiler stove too.

 I'm wondering if it's poor diesel as some is 5 years old and 6 months ago added £30 worth. My system heats 4 rads of total output of 4.2 kw, no trv's as NMEA was very kind to answer my questions like yours and a 55 litre calorifier so the webasto a bit oversized for the system on my 50 ft trad narrowboat. I have always switched it off after 60-90 minutes as too warm.

James.

 

Webasto location.jpg

Edited by canals are us?

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Re your coking up, some of the “refurbs” on eBay have their sintered evaporator damaged by over enthusiastic decoking of the sintered evaporator, this can lead to rich running and early coking up, especially if the burn rate has not been checked and set using an exhaust gas analyser after install when the exhaust and air intake resistances are a known. Personally, I would never touch an evaporator except to remove loose carbon and if heavily carboned always replace them. As the cost of a new burner cartridge almost equals the price of some of these “refurbs” it does make one wonder. I have been asked to install these for people who have bought them and politely declined on every occasion as I don’t want unnecessary agro down the line. However, the age of your diesel will also be a factor, possibly a big one. I have had brand new units coke after a week and ditto the replacement, installing a temporary tank with decent new red diesel to EN590 proved the point in each case. I honestly think it is a really good idea to install a 25l tank which is kept topped up so fresh diesel is always available, more so where the tank is a long way from the heater as the fuel pumps for all these heaters need to be close to the tank as they are “pushers” rather than “pullers”

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would like to just move topic slightly. NMEA, Got a query for you my D4 Ebber has exhaust with long round silencer fitted, is length and positioning,[bends] important? am thinking of moving exhaust, possibly sharper bends and altering length. 

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3 hours ago, NMEA said:

Re your coking up, some of the “refurbs” on eBay have their sintered evaporator damaged by over enthusiastic decoking of the sintered evaporator, this can lead to rich running and early coking up, especially if the burn rate has not been checked and set using an exhaust gas analyser after install when the exhaust and air intake resistances are a known. Personally, I would never touch an evaporator except to remove loose carbon and if heavily carboned always replace them. As the cost of a new burner cartridge almost equals the price of some of these “refurbs” it does make one wonder. I have been asked to install these for people who have bought them and politely declined on every occasion as I don’t want unnecessary agro down the line. However, the age of your diesel will also be a factor, possibly a big one. I have had brand new units coke after a week and ditto the replacement, installing a temporary tank with decent new red diesel to EN590 proved the point in each case. I honestly think it is a really good idea to install a 25l tank which is kept topped up so fresh diesel is always available, more so where the tank is a long way from the heater as the fuel pumps for all these heaters need to be close to the tank as they are “pushers” rather than “pullers”

It certainly coked up early. We'll see. You do "get what you pay for possibly" See how it performs when it's been cleaned. I certainly haven't the equipment to commission it when installed.

My webasto is fed from the main diesel tank 3ft away, so I'll draw off some fuel and check it for water/ contamination and then if poor, get it fully drained and refill with fresh diesel. Does Marine 16 have detrimental effects on the webasto using fuel treated with it? The engine conked out when going to the dock for survey 5 years ago and it turned out to be diesel bug. The boatyard drained all old diesel half filled with fresh and treated it with marine 16 and certainly the engine has ran fine since, but a webasto is probably more sensitive. I must have a look at the condition of the diesel and filters.

Thanks. James:)

Edited by canals are us?

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Marine 16 is fine with the Webaso but just checking for water and contamination will not be enough.

1 hour ago, br4k3s said:

would like to just move topic slightly. NMEA, Got a query for you my D4 Ebber has exhaust with long round silencer fitted, is length and positioning,[bends] important? am thinking of moving exhaust, possibly sharper bends and altering length. 

Yes length and bends are important, the specs are all in the manual.

 

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4 minutes ago, NMEA said:

Marine 16 is fine with the Webaso but just checking for water and contamination will not be enough.

 

I see your London way. Is there anyone you can recommend in my area near Burton On Trent, Staffordshire who can commission it properly with an analyser after I get it back and re-install it?

Many thanks. James.

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If you look on the Webasto site there is a daler locator, if you just put in your postcode it will bring up some around you.

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40 minutes ago, NMEA said:

If you look on the Webasto site there is a daler locator, if you just put in your postcode it will bring up some around you.

Thanks:cheers: Will hopefully sort it out. If not it will go in bin!!

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Thanks guys - especially NMEA and canals are us. I've found the install manual https://www.butlertechnik.com/downloads/4110310A_Thermotop_C_E_Install.pdf

Much the wiser now with just one thing bugging me - I'd definitely want a valve/valves so I can control if I just heat water, have heating or both. The old central heating with system boiler (non combi) used to use a 2 port valve so you could have hot water, or hot water and heating. I remember upgrading mine to a three port valve so I could have hot water or heating or both - the new control panel and the electrics were a nightmare but it all worked. So, I'll have a think about how I'm going to achieve what I want as far as that side of it is concerned.

Any positive recommendations on used/refurb kits? I did read your thoughts above but looks a likely option for me - still SO much stuff to buy.

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I tire os saying this, if you are running the calorifier you need to have another load like the bathroom towel radiator or you are storing up problems in the future, this is simply not acheavable other than by simply turning the other radiators off at the valves. Trying to be too clever will bite you in the arse. Refurb units are not true refurb units unless from an oficial Webasto source, its a lottery and you may be lucky or not so pay yer money and take the gamble, I have seen some halfway decent units and some right horrors.

 

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oh, a big part of why I want the Webasto is for hot water, I would use it daily to heat the 80l calorifier, and in summer wouldn't want the heating on just because the thing can't cope otherwise :(

I don't want to go down the gas/morco route so... rethink

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If you are prepared to be very disciplined on the length of time you run the heater it can be done but increased service intervals would almost certainly be required, there is a new 5kw Webasto to be launched which will cope better with cycling as it is ramped like the air heaters rather than stepped. Also shortly to me launched is a new pressure jet boiler the same size as the current Thermo 90 which will be brilliant for larger boats, a pressure jet boiler is the best type for extended runs and also for short runs.

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18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Should that be 'reduced' service intervals (as in 'more frequent') ?

Increased frequency ;)

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23 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Should that be 'reduced' service intervals (as in 'more frequent') ?

Means reduced time between service intervals, as in more frequent servicing. 

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53 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Means reduced time between service intervals, as in more frequent servicing. 

I would hope it does, as that is what I meant.

NMEA stated "increased service intervals" ie - "longer periods between services"

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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I would hope it does, as that is what I meant.

NMEA stated "increased service intervals" ie - "longer periods between services"

As so it does, initially I readt it as "reduced". Just goes to show that the brain interprets it as what it thinks it ought to be.

Edited by cuthound
Phat Phingers

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I fitted my Webasto as a sealed system with no header tank with a feed including isolating valves and a removable feed hose as in a domestic combi from the domestic supply. However as was pointed out to me filling the system was going to be difficult that way to introduce anti-freeze PLUS and extremely important the possibility of contaminating the domestic supply with anti-freeze. A definite no no. So converted it to include a header tank.

A case perhaps of a little knowledge etc.

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