Jump to content

Fitting a Webasto


Johny London

Featured Posts

11 hours ago, cereal tiller said:

Acremovsblev Skirting, is that manufactured  by the Anagram Corporation,or is it the Standard Acme stuff?

 

10 hours ago, WotEver said:

Ain’t it odd that by adding a ‘c’ instead of a space and an ‘s’ instead of an ‘a’ you can make an English word into Cyrillic. 

 

10 hours ago, cereal tiller said:

Cyrillic's are usually nice ones.Yep, Nice ones Cyrillics.

I'm beginning to wonder if my autocorrect is really using an English dictionary. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looking to start the install, I can't see how I'm going to get the required 100mm headroom between top of rads and bottom of header tank - at least not if installing in the engine bay. The rads will come to 100mm below interior gunnel, effectively putting the header tank with it's top 100mm higher than the rads, if that much. I keep remembering seeing a boat with two 22mm pipes coming out the deck going to a header tank way up by the stern doors - and I thought they must have had problems.

Looking at the pressure system now, it's not really a lot more hassle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Johny London said:

Looking to start the install, I can't see how I'm going to get the required 100mm headroom between top of rads and bottom of header tank - at least not if installing in the engine bay. The rads will come to 100mm below interior gunnel, effectively putting the header tank with it's top 100mm higher than the rads, if that much. I keep remembering seeing a boat with two 22mm pipes coming out the deck going to a header tank way up by the stern doors - and I thought they must have had problems.

Looking at the pressure system now, it's not really a lot more hassle.

Being a trad stern, my heating system header tank is above gunwale height, tucked in behind my control panel. Could you not site it higher up inside the boat - maybe inside a wardrobe or similar?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Being a trad stern, my heating system header tank is above gunwale height, tucked in behind my control panel. Could you not site it higher up inside the boat - maybe inside a wardrobe or similar?

Yes you can. It can go in a cupboard, wardrobe so it's concealed. Some have had it on the wall so they can see the levels. Purely up to you where you put it as long as it's higher than the rads. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Johny London said:

Looking to start the install, I can't see how I'm going to get the required 100mm headroom between top of rads and bottom of header tank - at least not if installing in the engine bay. The rads will come to 100mm below interior gunnel, effectively putting the header tank with it's top 100mm higher than the rads, if that much. I keep remembering seeing a boat with two 22mm pipes coming out the deck going to a header tank way up by the stern doors - and I thought they must have had problems.

Looking at the pressure system now, it's not really a lot more hassle.

Don’t go pressure. Keep it separate. You need to be able to charge the system with antifreeze. By having the header tank you can easily do this. If for any reason the anti freeze that you may have in a pressure system somehow bleak back into your fresh water, glycol alcohol is highly toxic, you would become seriously ill if not worse. Keep the two separate. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A pressure system would suit this system well, in fact pressure systems are almost all we do for new installs now. Correctly installed there is no opprtunity for leak back, just about every system in domestic systems is done this way now. I is very easy to introduce the 25% antifreeze solution before ptessurising the system through the top of the towel rad. Pressure is the way to go without a doubt in this instance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm, interesting views. I must admit, it never occurred to me to even think about where else it could go - though of course space is tight in each cupboard immediately inside the boat.

I do take your point Mike, about the dangers of the anti freeze getting into the water supply. With two valves and a non return valve, it really shouldn't happen, but I could always physically uncouple the fill hose to be extra safe. I assume it would only very rarely need pressurising.

So - I now have two ways forward - thanks :)

My next concern is really the physical fitting of the webomaster - I quite fancy it on the bulkhead, sitting centrally infront of the engine, but it would be a tad near the belts. I wonder about noise conduction too - seen them on youtube and surprisingly noisy!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It’s your decision which way you go, either way keep it simple to install and simple to maintain.  There are ways of keeping the vibration down. I have fitted to a wooden base and even straight to the steelwork with anti vibration mounts. The bigger noise generator to be honest is the click click click of the fuel pump. This should have come with a rubber coated p clip. This can also be fitted with an anti vibration mounting. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Johny London said:

but I could always physically uncouple the fill hose to be extra safe.

In a domestic installation this is a specifically stated requirement I believe in water regulations.

Regarding a pressurized system and filling via towel rail is what I have done in new builds for a number of years and this is what I installed in my sailaway however the "expert" who commissioned various things engine etc said I was better installing a header tank. He also along with the electrician used to finish off the 12 volt system and who I relied on to get my BSS insisted that unlike advice from the Smart Gauge website insisted that my 5 domestic batteries should be in series which although I believe is not wrong does not achieve thebest balance. As I wanted my BSS and it was they who organised the inspector I made the necessary alterations- but left pipe work in place! 

You pay your money and make your choice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, jddevel said:

In a domestic installation this is a specifically stated requirement I believe in water regulations.

Regarding a pressurized system and filling via towel rail is what I have done in new builds for a number of years and this is what I installed in my sailaway however the "expert" who commissioned various things engine etc said I was better installing a header tank. He also along with the electrician used to finish off the 12 volt system and who I relied on to get my BSS insisted that unlike advice from the Smart Gauge website insisted that my 5 domestic batteries should be in series which although I believe is not wrong does not achieve thebest balance. As I wanted my BSS and it was they who organised the inspector I made the necessary alterations- but left pipe work in place! 

You pay your money and make your choice

You might find that your12 volt equipment doesn't last very long if you wire 5 x 12 volt batteries in series... :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, cuthound said:

You might find that your12 volt equipment doesn't last very long if you wire 5 x 12 volt batteries in series... :D

As stated I needed the electrics finished to BSS standards of which I was not familiar and found it easier due to pressure of time to let them get on with it. However I have every intention of changing this over the winter months  I assume others will agree that this is the way to go- See Smart Guage advice on their webpage?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, jddevel said:

As stated I needed the electrics finished to BSS standards of which I was not familiar and found it easier due to pressure of time to let them get on with it. However I have every intention of changing this over the winter months  I assume others will agree that this is the way to go- See Smart Guage advice on their webpage?

Err 5 x 12 volt 100Ah batteries in series will give you a 60 volt 100Ah battery.

I think you mean they areally connected in parallel which will give you a 12 volt 500Ah battery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Err 5 x 12 volt 100Ah batteries in series will give you a 60 volt 100Ah battery.

I think you mean they areally connected in parallel which will give you a 12 volt 500Ah battery.

Yes you probably correct in that I don`t know what I`m saying. What I know is that whilst I wanted the batteries connected as per Smart Guage namely all positives of equal length cable to say a buzz bar and the negatives likewise I was told no all the boats were connected with the positives linked from one to another and the negatives likewise which I`ve described, obviously incorrectly ,as in series.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Johny London said:

My next concern is really the physical fitting of the webomaster - I quite fancy it on the bulkhead, sitting centrally infront of the engine, but it would be a tad near the belts. I wonder about noise conduction too - seen them on youtube and surprisingly noisy!

The gas tight one-piece exhaust tube and silencer will take care of the exhaust noise quite nicely, the air intake roar and whistle can be almost eliminated by the use of the air intake silencer mount, if you have the proper red pump is should be fairly quiet but if you mount it in the correct place i.e. close to the dip tube you will be installing in the fuel tank and use the quiet mount it should not be intrusive. I have the standing offer open of a PDF copy of the correct narrowboat Webasto factory install manual to anybody who wants one (Though it comes with the kit if you buy the right one for the job) this has all you could possibly need to know, it doesn't contain views or opinions, it tells you the correct way to install the system and discusses pressure vs header, mounts etc along with every aspect of the install from start to finish. Send me an email address by PM and you will be far better armed to complete the install to a high standard. Motorcycle exhaust bobins are a decent way to mount the unit.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I have the install pdf and it certainly does cover most things very well. I couldn't see specifications for the AAV's or PV's though - not having dealt with these previously, I presume they come in different pressure ratings - what's correct for this install? ta.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Johny London said:

Yes, I have the install pdf and it certainly does cover most things very well. I couldn't see specifications for the AAV's or PV's though - not having dealt with these previously, I presume they come in different pressure ratings - what's correct for this install? ta.

I have no Idea why you would fit an Air Admittance Valve, they are for drainage and syphon breaks in skin fittings, exactly the reverse of what you want to achieve so am confused. We normally fit 3 bar Pressure relief valves, they usually come with the filling loop kit anyway, charge the system to 0.75 - 1 bar cold and expect it to run at anything up to 1.5 bar hot. A bottle air vent like this BOTTLE VENT is useful to install close to the heater outlet, or a Spirovent, but I usually reserve them for larger more expensive systems as they are about twenty times the cost of a bottle vent.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you buy a filling loop kit from Screwfix it will have a gauge, pressure relief valve et all with it and screws directly onto the pressure vessel. Bottle vents suit any system and are available in 15mm compression fitting and 1/2" BSP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hi NMEA, I wonder if you could advise, I've been finding all the bits and bobs I need - now spotted everything except the gauge. I found a pressure relief valve...

https://www.screwfix.com/p/pressure-relief-valve-x/2459v?_requestid=394308

but I also saw this that comes with a gauge...

https://www.screwfix.com/p/prv-with-gauge-x/41943?_requestid=389881

which I'm not sure if it is a relief valve or a reducing valve which to my understanding are different things.

They've got an expansion tank set to 3bar (8 litre) and of course the bottle valves you pointed me to.

The rads are hung - no pipework yet but looking nice :)

 

Radiators 2.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Just an update - I've now got everything I need including the fill loop kit with gauge and valve and it connects direct to the expansion vessel. The only thing is that the Webasto diagram states  "Note the inclusion of the Pressure Relief valves, (marked as PV). One of these should be mounted in
the hot water outlet pipe no more that 30cm away from the heater. Preferably at a high point."

But there is only 1 PV in the diagram - do they mean the AAV's? I ask because the pv I have is attached to the 4 way connector (manifold) that came with the fill loop, and the pressure gauge obviously, plus the ev goes straight on it. So Should I put an extra PV right up by the heater itself?

Also - I'm trying to figure the physical fit out - I'm thinking ev in the engine bay next to the webasto?

It's been mighty cold aboard lately - I'd love to get this running for xmas :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 09:01, NMEA said:

I have no Idea why you would fit an Air Admittance Valve, they are for drainage and syphon breaks in skin fittings, exactly the reverse of what you want to achieve so am confused. We normally fit 3 bar Pressure relief valves, they usually come with the filling loop kit anyway, charge the system to 0.75 - 1 bar cold and expect it to run at anything up to 1.5 bar hot. A bottle air vent like this BOTTLE VENT is useful to install close to the heater outlet, or a Spirovent, but I usually reserve them for larger more expensive systems as they are about twenty times the cost of a bottle vent.

 

NMEA, surprised at you not knowing that AAV stands for Automatic Air Vent. :rolleyes:

That's what is indicated on the webasto drawing. not an air admittance valve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any thoughts about whether there should be 2 PV's? (With one 30cm from the heater). It would mean the one on the ev manifold was extra, but I guess not a problem, the idea being to have the valve where the system is at its hotest? I tried to write to Webasto but the form on their page wouldn't work.

And still deciding where to mount the ev. And the whole unit for that matter! It could all go at the weed hatch, but for ease of acces and pipe runs the bulkhead is better - it's just a tad near to the engine belts :(

I found this thread...

 but it doesn't quite tell me enough.

Edited by Johny London
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Bazza954 said:

NMEA, surprised at you not knowing that AAV stands for Automatic Air Vent. :rolleyes:

That's what is indicated on the webasto drawing. not an air admittance valve.

Being marine trained an AAV to me is an air admittance valve, also known as an anti siphon valve The others I have always known as bottle vents or Spirovents. It' Also true to say that if you Google AAV plumbing supplies it will come up with any number of air admittance valves but no bottle vents or Spirovents, I stick by my earlier comment.

Edited by NMEA
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.