Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble

Did you know Canal World is funded by our valued members? You may make a voluntary donation by clicking here

rbrtcrowther

boats for sale.... ummmmmm really?

Featured Posts

Well we're looking to buy our first boat ad we only have a little budget.... Of about 20 grand... So we don't mind a bit of project or something older.. Now we have seen a couple that would suit us one in whilton Maria called Avimar. Overplated 2011 I think and last blacked in... 2011! Really! In fact most of the boats say things like " last survey 2007" showing good hull thickness". Ummmmm great.. .. Any how... We have our eye on another one as well. 1973 with timber top..and a Lister. Anyhow if a hull has been overplated how do know if there is water between the plates and can further hull repairs be carried out in the future? Your thoughts if you please...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tuscan    239

Unless you know what you are doing and are prepared for a fair bit of maintenance work most years I would steer clear of a timber top.

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LadyG    37

I'm not a narrowboater, yet, as no doubt someone will comment upon, but I would think that in your position, I'd be looking at the £25K market to find your £20K purchase. and I'd go smaller rather than older.

You may wish to sell it later, and make a killing [I'm joking], so view it from that perspective, see what sells quickly and what does not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well the good news is I know what I'm doing having spent 20 years working in the salty measure marine industry.. So woodwork and fiberglass sheathing is not a problem.. I've been looking at boats in the 25-30 grand range and nothing floats my boat so to speak.... The older ones seem to have more character especially the 70's ones.... Most of the stuff built in the 90's appears to be professionally fitted out by someone in pale oak who took their inspiration form a weeks holiday in a static caravan in Skegness.... Bloody horrendous...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
magictime    248

For what it's worth, and I say this to everyone who comes on here asking about 'project boats', I'd steer clear of that category if at all possible just because they can be such money pits and take up so much time. Is this a liveaboard we're talking about, where maximum space is a prime concern? Because if not you could probably afford a very nice boat at the 25 to 40ft end of the size range. Our first boat was 24ft and although you wouldn't have wanted to live aboard full time, it managed to fit in all the essentials and was great for holidays even for 3 or 4 people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bee    232

Timber tops. Nothing intrinsically wrong with a timber top but you really need someone to look it over who has some experience. There are many ways of building a timber top and keeping the water out and therefore the rot is the tricky bit, all the edges and joins are the vulnerable places, along the gunwhale, where the roof joins the sides, every opening, windows and doors and especially hatches. 1973 is getting on a bit and perfect condition is unlikely in any department. Overplating is a fact of life. Very difficult to tell how much metal there is left under the paint.  Tread carefully and if you get as far as getting it surveyed then try to talk to the surveyor. My experience of older second hand boats is that if you have to start dismantling the interior to get to the hull or top then you can easily end up with a skip full of stuff and re fitting the whole thing - in other words you might as well have bought a shell in the first place but of course if you are constrained by budget then you can only do your best. Good luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
magictime    248
3 minutes ago, Bee said:

if you are constrained by budget then you can only do your best

This is true, of course, but there's no point blowing a £20k budget on a £20k boat that needs (say) £10k of work. Better IMHO to choose a smaller £20k boat in better condition, or to save for a £30k boat of your preferred size.

Have you considered a GRP cruiser? Again I think you could afford something very nice indeed on your budget, and you're clearly not wedded to a traditional steel boat!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hmmm cheers for that... It would e a holiday and weekend boat..... And maintenance and general tinkering would be part if the fun. We like to spend 18 grand and on a 37 to 48 footer... And to be honest and extra 8 grand doesn't seem to improve the quality. From the intense research we've done age doesn't seem to be an issue. We've seen boats from the 70's that have no shore power and a basic 12volt leasure system that have no over playing and newer boats that were overplated 10 years ago...maintenance seems to be the biggest factor. But then a boat that never moves might not suffer from lack of blacking especially if its not plugged in...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It has to be a steel hull... I quite like les Allen, Harbrough,and liverpool boats.. It must have a flat bottom too... The springer type shape is no for me... I like i nice bit of space up front too. A nice well deck thingy... And the wife would prefer a cruiser stern but its not a deal breaker... Trad stern would be ok with nice front area..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

looking at boats in the 30 grand range... I couldn't live with those 90's interiors....nah.i.need to find a good old boat thats been loved and has a quirky 70's interior.. Its out there... Somewhere....

sorry been on the cider.... Typing is becomeing difficult.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ditchcrawler    393

Saw a boat this week, fibreglass top for £12K Trying to think where.

 

Somewhere in Birmingham 

Edited by ditchcrawler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
magictime    248

If you positively relish the idea of 'doing up' a boat, of course it's a bit of a different matter - and at the end of the day if you just plain like 70s boats more than 90s boats, that does count for something. I'd still say: be realistic about the amount of time and money these 'projects' can take up, and about the possibility that an older boat that hasn't yet been overplated miight need it doing in the short or medium term.

I wouldn't take on a boat like that myself, but thank goodness there are people like you around who are prepared to keep these older, quirkier boats on the water. I do know what you mean about the caravan-y look of more recent boats, and in many ways it's a shame that our idea of what a non-working narrowboat should be like has become so fixed. Some of these boats, built by early hire fleets etc., are pushing fifty now, and are just as much a part of waterways history as the working boats we normally speak of as being 'historic'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose I feel better about buying a hull that requires overplating. Rather Than one that has already had it done 15years ago. I could keep an eye on the progress ect. Then look after it properly. It beggars belief the number of boats that have been plated but haven't been blacked in the 6 to 10 years since... and then asking top dollar for it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
magictime    248
1 minute ago, rbrtcrowther said:

I suppose I feel better about buying a hull that requires overplating. Rather Than one that has already had it done 15years ago.

I think that makes perfect sense if you have the budget to do it. If you end up needing that sort of work doing, Martin Kedian (who's a member of the forum) seems to have an excellent reputation for the quality of his steelwork.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
starman    54
29 minutes ago, rbrtcrowther said:

I suppose I feel better about buying a hull that requires overplating. Rather Than one that has already had it done 15years ago. I could keep an eye on the progress ect. Then look after it properly. It beggars belief the number of boats that have been plated but haven't been blacked in the 6 to 10 years since... and then asking top dollar for it!

I guess the problem with your approach is that you don't know the extent and hence cost of overplating until you've committed to an out of water survey. 

I think my first step would be to find when and where previous plating had been done and investigate the yard's reputation. Streethay is another yard with years of experience in the work who'd be worth a visit if you're near Lichfield. 

PS agree with what you say about many 90s fitouts - I think 80s ones with more t&g and mixed woods are much nicer. But even pale oak can be transformed by painting. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I new to all this but was under the impression that an offer would be made on the boat subject to survey with and agreement in writing that the vendor would either pay to ave to work done or drop the price accordingly.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WotEver    687
1 minute ago, rbrtcrowther said:

I new to all this but was under the impression that an offer would be made on the boat subject to survey with and agreement in writing that the vendor would either pay to ave to work done or drop the price accordingly.....

That's all down to negotiation. Some sellers will agree, some will outright refuse and some will meet half way. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And that probably explains why some boats have been on the market for ages.. Wanting top dollar but refusing to enter an agreement. Its a lot of money top splash out having put an offer in, paid for haul out and then a survey only to find out its got the structural integrity of a pork scratching.. An the vendor then refuses to budge on the price...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alan de Enfield    1,068
12 minutes ago, rbrtcrowther said:

I new to all this but was under the impression that an offer would be made on the boat subject to survey with and agreement in writing that the vendor would either pay to ave to work done or drop the price accordingly.....

So, using your example –

A seller prices his boat with an allowance for the £10k needed for overplating, your surveyor identifies that £10k is needed to be spent, so you go back to the seller and say he needs to drop his price by £10k.

I have purchased and sold quote a few boats over the years – My ‘selling price’ is my ‘selling price’ and is set at a level to reflect the condition of the boat - unless any big unknown problems appear, at which stage I can decide to drop the price or keep it as was.

It will cost you around £800-£1000 a time to have a survey done so you do not want to be doing more surveys than necessary. Only survey boats that are ones you really want to buy at the advertised price, if you can negotiate any ‘discount’ then take that as a ‘win’, if the seller won’t move on price you have a decision to make.

I believe that I price my boats realistically and have always sold within 4 weeks, and best case - the same day.

  • Greenie 1
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's ok if your selling price reflects the condition of the boat.. And after any work is done the boats value rises to meet its value... But if a boat made in the 70's by a known builder with wooden top is advertised at the top of its money and hasn't been out of the water or blacked in 8 to 12 years and the bottom turns out to rotten I'm out of pocket and the vendor puts it back and waits for the next mug to come along. If your selling one and you state the fact it has issues ad price accordingly fair enough. But to advertise one as " a great boat and well maintained" then put it on at its full market value why would any vendor refuse to enter and agreement. They are so confident its well maintained they would have nothing to loose would they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We've got 5 to go look at.. I know given the choice of the perfect boat with an awkward vendor or less than perfect boat with a very helpful vendor with a good agreement... I'd work with the latter..

Edited by rbrtcrowther

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did see one on a website a few weeks ago.. 10 grand. Looked very nice. And stated that a full overplate was required costing 10 grand with some removal of internal fittings. Unfortunately the blooming thing is about 250 miles away else I would have had a punt on that. 20 grand and a boat with a new bottom. It was well kitted out to. Priced accordingly with an honest informative description.... Great.... But a boat slapped on the market and not been out of the water for years and years advertised at top money... There's going to have be some sort of agreement even if its half the survey and haul out costs. Sound fair enough to me. Its doing them a favour, they would at the least gave a half price survey that they could positivity act on... Or throw away and hope another dreamy eyed punter buys without a survey..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
chubby    205

I dont get any of this really . Ive just on AD . I have a boat already but i look on it several times a week - like a strange addiction .

I clicked on " Traditional " . Four boats at 20 K , 23 K , 15 K & another at 20 K came up in the first 10 boats . The last was a 40 ft Springer tho which you seem to have discounted as a builder . The others were 50 ft plus . 

The boats are there . There will be many more . I dont even look at the cruiser stern section but you will . I d expect all the 4 i found within 60 seconds to need work - maybe costly work who knows ? 

If i can find 4 boats in 60 seconds that fit your budget how can you claim there to be so few ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
magictime    248
1 hour ago, rbrtcrowther said:

I did see one on a website a few weeks ago.. 10 grand. Looked very nice. And stated that a full overplate was required costing 10 grand with some removal of internal fittings. Unfortunately the blooming thing is about 250 miles away else I would have had a punt on that.

I know the money and time involved in that sort of journey is not to be sniffed at, but I think you have to look at it in context. It might have cost you £100 and 12 hours (say) to view that boat, but what if an equally appealing boat closer to home ended up costing £1000 more and needed an extra 120 hours of work? Trying to save money and time by not doing viewings could very easily become a false economy on both fronts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×