Interfering at locks

[Bee]

Some people can only impart advice by using the Harry Enfield technique - 'You don't want to do it like that' etc. etc. Some people know what they are talking about and manage to tell you something without you wanting to knee them in the groin and some people have no idea what they are talking about and persist in telling you anyway. Wonder which one I am.

[Lysander]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

You're certainly right about the Co-op, though the French call it "le Coop", I guess they sell chickens. A hyphen can help to clarify a word's meaning. Last week, on a musical forum, I was puzzled by the word "doover". Was it an insult? Something which sucked carpets? Upon enquiry, it transpired that the bloke was referring to an updated version of a song: a "do-over". I think he was American, but there are limits.

 

Sorry to continue the thread-drift but I would like to add two more which I find extremely confusing - coworker and miniseries.

[WotEver]

7 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Sorry to continue the thread-drift but I would like to add two more which I find extremely confusing - coworker and miniseries.

I've always wondered about the pronunciation of "biopic". Is it 'BUY-oh-pick' or is it spoken like myopic?

[Tim Lewis]

2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Thinking more about it, the issue is the fundamental difference between something you know to be unsafe, vs something that is outside your experience and thus you think it might be dangerous but don't actually know.

We have this problem in aviation. On the one hand, there is no point in having a copilot if they don't speak out when they see something wrong/dangerous/unsafe/abnormal. But on the other hand when they are a year 1 copilot with very little experience, whilst many would be mostly in learning mode, the nature of a few was they were very quick to complain/warn about something which was in fact quite normal, but which they simply hadn't experienced before. Under the wrong circumstances, that can cause distraction which in itself is dangerous.

One of the more interesting documentaries I have seen was about the Korean 747 that crashed near Hatfield 20 odd years ago where it was concluded that the Korean crews culture of not questioning the chief pilots mistakes was a major contributory factor.

Tim

[nicknorman]

Just now, Tim Lewis said:

One of the more interesting documentaries I have seen was about the Korean 747 that crashed near Hatfield 20 odd years ago where it was concluded that the Korean crews culture of not questioning the chief pilots mistakes was a major contributory factor.

Tim

I think it was not just the Koreans, but all of aviation, hangups from the pioneers of aviation, wartime pilots and "the right stuff" (which is actually the wrong stuff for multi-pilot operations). It's just that Westerners, in general, have less of a problem with "loss of face" than some eastern cultures and so we have been able to move faster in the right direction. I have certainly seen a big change in culture since I started commercial aviation in 1980. But equally, I recall that after 6 months on an S61, I still didn't really understand what all the knobs and switches did. Fortunately I knew my place and kept quiet at critical moments, and didn't complain that x wasn't being done in accordance with the letter of the Operations Manual. If it was all happening now, I'd probably be a distractingly annoyingly questioning sort of year 1 copilot!

[Athy]

23 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Sorry to continue the thread-drift but I would like to add two more which I find extremely confusing - coworker and miniseries.

No apologies needed - it is a fascinating by-wash of the main thread. I would always write co-worker and mini-series, in fact I don't think I have ever seen either as a single word until now. (Come to think of it, I would be more likely to say colleague or workmate - I think co-worker is American English.)

[mark99]

6 hours ago, Philip said:

Just come up Wheaton Aston lock and there was a boat waiting to go down, with one of the crew on the lockside, there to 'help'. As per normal practise along here I opened the centre paddle on the gate straightaway since I enjoy watching the water rush in as it does and then the person off the waiting boat started ranting, telling me that I shouldn't be opening that one and ordering me to put it down.

First of all on the safety aspect; I have a short boat and keep it towards the back of the lock so the water surge doesn't even come close; the sluice itself is partially covered by a baffle which directs water to the side; and the surge itself actually pushes the boat away from the gate, unlike a lot of ground paddles which pull the boat towards it. This was all very obvious to anyone looking at what was happening.

Secondly; why do people feel the need to start interfering when it isn't even their lock? I would never tell someone how they should be doing things unless I could see an obvious hazard about to happen and even then I wouldn't start telling the person off about it and threatening to report them to CRT. I've no problem whatsoever with people offering to help, but I'm sick of people interfering like this when it isn't their boat, nor their lock. Is it a common theme all over the network?

9/10 I open the opposite gate paddle going up to pin the boat to the side when single handling up the GU.

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2017 by mark99

[Machpoint005]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

I started commercial aviation in 1980. But equally, I recall that after 6 months on an S61, I still didn't really understand what all the knobs and switches did.

That's a bit worrying, Nick, in hindsight -- that was roundabout when I was doing most of my offshore work, and I rode in a lot of S61s!

1 hour ago, Athy said:

No apologies needed - it is a fascinating by-wash of the main thread. I would always write co-worker and mini-series, in fact I don't think I have ever seen either as a single word until now. (Come to think of it, I would be more likely to say colleague or workmate - I think co-worker is American English.)

The one that always worries me is the TV trailer referring to "weeknights at 9" or whatever. I've never managed to tune in and catch those miniature warriors!

[nicknorman]

10 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

That's a bit worrying, Nick, in hindsight -- that was roundabout when I was doing most of my offshore work, and I rode in a lot of S61s!

Not to worry, I knew what the important switches did like the ones that turned on the big fan on top.

[haggis]

This talk of encounters at locks reminded me of an incident at Stone earlier this year. Kelpie was being held in by Iain while I walked to the lock (windlass in hand) where a boat was coming up. The lock labourer looked up, saw Kelpie and proceeded to tell me what a Kelpie was. It was, to put it mildly, a load of mince, and I proceeded to give him the true version but he was having none of it. "I lived in Scotland for a few months and I know", he told me, completely ignoring my Scottish accent :-) .

It struck us as quite amusing.

Haggis

 

 

[StephenA]

6 hours ago, Philip said:

There was clearly no danger as there was about 40ft between the surge and the boat. Upset is the wrong word, I'm a little fed up by it though.

We found that even with a 52 foot boat the gate paddle is the least "problematical" top paddle to open first - no forward surge or anything.. .and then once you've got a couple of feet in the lock then up with ground paddles.

We had the same many years ago on the Llangollen - working a lock and boat coming down told us off because "you are NOT allowed to work the locks like that". We made it quite clear that we knew what we were doing and it wasn't against any regulations....

[cuthound]

I wonder if some people who interfere by telling you not to open gate paddles until the lock is half full are longer term boaters who recall the days (up to the mid 80's) when most gate paddles were unshuttered, but have not realised that shuttering the gate paddles has made them relatively safe?

Unshuttered gate paddles can and did sink the boats of the unwary by flooding the well deck, but I think all have been neutered with shuttering for many a year now.

[ditchcrawler]

7 hours ago, Philip said:

Just come up Wheaton Aston lock and there was a boat waiting to go down, with one of the crew on the lockside, there to 'help'. As per normal practise along here I opened the centre paddle on the gate straightaway since I enjoy watching the water rush in as it does and then the person off the waiting boat started ranting, telling me that I shouldn't be opening that one and ordering me to put it down.

First of all on the safety aspect; I have a short boat and keep it towards the back of the lock so the water surge doesn't even come close; the sluice itself is partially covered by a baffle which directs water to the side; and the surge itself actually pushes the boat away from the gate, unlike a lot of ground paddles which pull the boat towards it. This was all very obvious to anyone looking at what was happening.

Secondly; why do people feel the need to start interfering when it isn't even their lock? I would never tell someone how they should be doing things unless I could see an obvious hazard about to happen and even then I wouldn't start telling the person off about it and threatening to report them to CRT. I've no problem whatsoever with people offering to help, but I'm sick of people interfering like this when it isn't their boat, nor their lock. Is it a common theme all over the network?

Woodend lock has one ground and one gate paddle at the top, for months the top ground paddle was bust and boaters had to use the gate paddle, as soon as the ground paddle is mended, its open the ground paddle, twiddle your thumbs until the lock is over half full and open the gate paddle. On most narrow locks we oped the gate paddle fully, that way the water shoots out sideways not over the boat, we also open the ground paddles with the boat hard against the cill

 

5 minutes ago, cuthound said:

I wonder if some people who interfere by telling you not to open gate paddles until the lock is half full are longer term boaters who recall the days (up to the mid 80's) when most gate paddles were unshuttered, but have not realised that shuttering the gate paddles has made them relatively safe?

Unshuttered gate paddles can and did sink the boats of the unwary by flooding the well deck, but I think all have been neutered with shuttering for many a year now.

I think its the newer ones that read the notice on the lock gates

[StephenA]

9 minutes ago, cuthound said:

I wonder if some people who interfere by telling you not to open gate paddles until the lock is half full are longer term boaters who recall the days (up to the mid 80's) when most gate paddles were unshuttered, but have not realised that shuttering the gate paddles has made them relatively safe?

Unshuttered gate paddles can and did sink the boats of the unwary by flooding the well deck, but I think all have been neutered with shuttering for many a year now.

Even unshuttered ones can be used safely if you take care....

Edited September 12, 2017 by StephenA

[MtB]

2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

If it was all happening now, I'd probably be a distractingly annoyingly questioning sort of year 1 copilot!

But now you're no longer a copilot!!

 

[Canal Cuttings]

<<thread drift on>>  A biopic is a biographical picture, so pronounced Buy-oh Pick.  <<thread drift off>>

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

Not to worry, I knew what the important switches did like the ones that turned on the big fan on top.

I think this guy forgot where the 'up' switch was:

 

[mark99]

Neat bit of parking.

[WotEver]

3 minutes ago, mark99 said:

Neat bit of parking.

I thought so. 

[Mike Todd]

2 hours ago, cuthound said:

I wonder if some people who interfere by telling you not to open gate paddles until the lock is half full are longer term boaters who recall the days (up to the mid 80's) when most gate paddles were unshuttered, but have not realised that shuttering the gate paddles has made them relatively safe?

Unshuttered gate paddles can and did sink the boats of the unwary by flooding the well deck, but I think all have been neutered with shuttering for many a year now.

Perhaps they are from that small minority if boaters who can read: at least in the large number if locks with such advice written in them.

[magpie patrick]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

 

I think its the newer ones that read the notice on the lock gates

At least one lock on the kennet has warning signs not to open the gate paddles until the lock is half full

Trouble is, there are no ground paddles...

[matty40s]

2 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Unshuttered gate paddles can and did sink the boats of the unwary by flooding the well deck, but I think all have been neutered with shuttering for many a year now.

The lower Grand Union locks all have little signs warning you about the flows from gate paddles, open them and you are lucky to get any flow at all, never mind fill a lock using them. They are all blocked up with weed and plastic bags.

 

The Soar navigation however, they work properly there. 

 

[Rob-M]

1 minute ago, matty40s said:

The lower Grand Union locks all have little signs warning you about the flows from gate paddles, open them and you are lucky to get any flow at all, never mind fill a lock using them. They are all blocked up with weed and plastic bags.

 

The Soar navigation however, they work properly there. 

 

We raked weed and poly bags out of the gate paddles on a number of locks on the Soar to get some proper flow through them.

[matty40s]

Kegworth Deep hasnt got any silly baffles, just as well as the ground paddle is invariably blocked with flood silt or wee(d edit to add)s. 

Edited September 12, 2017 by matty40s

[nicknorman]

54 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

At least one lock on the kennet has warning signs not to open the gate paddles until the lock is half full

Trouble is, there are no ground paddles...

Oi! I said that already!