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Boat price register comparing advertised/realized prices


Mick in Bangkok

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Good morning everyone,

Like a few other form members I am currently following boat prices as I am considering a live aboard retirement option and trying to become acquainted with what is available within my budget.

My limited venture into this exercise indicates that newer boats tend to sell quickest at near to asking price whereas older boats are not so much in demand and vintage boats and/or older boats with vintage engines tend to hang around longer and sell for less that originally advertised for.

I also note that it has been suggested that a register/thread on prices listed compared to prices realized might be a good addition to the forum, however as a newbie I would like to hear from the experienced boat owners if this might be a welcome addition to the forum or would it be considered as praying into boat owners private financial affairs.

Cheers Mick

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4 hours ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

vintage boats and/or older boats with vintage engines tend to hang around longer and sell for less that originally advertised for.

 

Is this so? If it is, I suspect that the trend will soon be going in the other direction: because new regulations make it almost impossible to install a vintage engine in a newly built boat, the supply of such craft is finite, so there will be fewer boats available to fill the demand, so prices are likely to rise.

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1 hour ago, Athy said:

Is this so? If it is, I suspect that the trend will soon be going in the other direction: because new regulations make it almost impossible to install a vintage engine in a newly built boat, the supply of such craft is finite, so there will be fewer boats available to fill the demand, so prices are likely to rise.

But, is it not possible, that as the 'older generation' die out there will be less demand from the 'high tech' generation who want to just 'switch on and go' rather than mess about with blow lamps, speedwheels etc and have little or no interest in 'polishing brass'.

There will always be a few 'born in the wrong era', but I feel they will be in ever decreasing numbers - take the microcosm of this forum - how many 'newbies' come on asking about vintage boats compared to those asking about 'floating flats', times, they are a-changing.

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Have you seen this thread that I started earlier in the year? 

It's not a boat-by-boat list of advertised vs. realized prices, but it should give you any idea of how the two have differed in the experience of buyers and sellers.

One major caveat though: demand is high and prices are up at the minute, so this is may well be of historical interest rather than giving an accurate picture of the market right now.

Incidentally, having been shopping around myself recently, I wouldn't be at all confident that 'older boats are not so much in demand' and are therefore likely to end up being sold at a discount. Prices wouldn't have risen in the way they have if these boats weren't shifting. One broker told me prices were up by 10%-15% generally, and that certainly squares with my impression that last year's £35k boat (maybe something from the mid-nineties) is this year's £40k boat.

Edited by magictime
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9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But, is it not possible, that as the 'older generation' die out there will be less demand from the 'high tech' generation who want to just 'switch on and go' rather than mess about with blow lamps, speedwheels etc and have little or no interest in 'polishing brass'.

There will always be a few 'born in the wrong era', but I feel they will be in ever decreasing numbers - take the microcosm of this forum - how many 'newbies' come on asking about vintage boats compared to those asking about 'floating flats', times, they are a-changing.

There is one on the forum at the moment, actually.

If new entrants do not initially ask about older styles and engines, it's probably because they don't know about them. I didn't when we were shopping for our first boat 20 years ago.

Your view if younger people is perhaps on the jaundiced side: I don't believe that all they seek is the easiest option.

 

Oh, and very few vintage engines require the use of a blowlamp to coax them into life. Most of them just need the push of a button or (like ours) the turn of a key.

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2 minutes ago, Athy said:

There is one on the forum at the moment, actually. Indeed - in Bangkock - but that is, what, one a hundred

If new entrants do not initially ask about older styles and engines, it's probably because they don't know about them. I didn't when we were shopping for our first boat 20 years ago.

Your view if younger people is perhaps on the jaundiced side: I don't believe that all they seek is the easiest option. I can only comment from my limited experience, example - my No1 Son has the boat wired up so he can control it from his I-Pad whilst lying in bed - Radar, engines, plotter, stering, everything except looking out of the window.

How about the generation of 'hive', call up your lights and heating whilst on the bus, everything is on and dinner cooking as you arrive home & open the door.

 

Oh, and very few vintage engines require the use of a blowlamp to coax them into life. Most of them just need the push of a button or (like ours) the turn of a key.

I notice you didn't mention the 'brass-rubbing !

 

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I notice you didn't mention the brass rubbing!

That's part of keeping a boat clean - surely you're not suggesting that, in addition to being bone idle, younger people are dirty too?

Parts of your argument are akin to white sheep and black sheep - the former eat more than the latter because there are more of them.  Boats with modern engines hidden under the floor outnumber those with separate engine rooms - I would guess by a ratio of at least 10 to 1. So it is hardly surprising that more of them are sold.

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2 hours ago, Rob-M said:

How do you know what price a boat has actually sold for...?

 

43 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Ask the broker who sold it?

 

And do you think all brokers will freely and honestly supply that information, (particularly if you as each one every time a boat is sold!)

And of course plenty of boats are not sold through brokers.

I don't think most people on this forum could or would be able to keep such a register.

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25 minutes ago, Athy said:

That's part of keeping a boat clean - surely you're not suggesting that, in addition to being bone idle, younger people are dirty too?

Parts of your argument are akin to white sheep and black sheep - the former eat more than the latter because there are more of them.  Boats with modern engines hidden under the floor outnumber those with separate engine rooms - I would guess by a ratio of at least 10 to 1. So it is hardly surprising that more of them are sold.

Sod cleaning brass life is way way too short. My boat is being painted at the moment and I will ensure the silly mushrooms are given some nice gloss paint :D

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6 hours ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

  . . . vintage boats and/or older boats with vintage engines tend to hang around longer and sell for less that originally advertised for.

 

Not in my experience.  My ex FMC josher sold with three months (and I was abroad for one of those months, so couldn't deal with enquiries).  I had two offers - one for the asking price and one for slightly less.

Edited by koukouvagia
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7 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:
6 hours ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

  . . . vintage boats and/or older boats with vintage engines tend to hang around longer and sell for less that originally advertised for.

 

Not in my experience.  My ex FMC josher sold with three months (and I was abroad for one of those months, so couldn't deal with enquiries).  I had two offers - one for the asking price and one for slightly less.

That is interesting to note, thanks for the clarifaction

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Well Magictime's poll wasn't very helpful was it?  All it tells me is that it's quite possible to buy a boat for 25% of its asking price or you might not get anything at all off the price  but of course what you want to know is what factors influence the spectrum of possibilities and there are just too many variables at play.  It's not like houses where you can punch in a number of parameters - location, number of bedrooms, bungalow, semi, etc.   Boats are too complex a commodity and the buyers, - and sellers, - are too unpredictable.  

 

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49 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

There is one on the forum at the moment, actually. Indeed - in Bangkock - but that is, what, one a hundred

I did not realize I was in such a minority, actually even though I am a novice to narrow boats I have now turned 50 so not of the new generation age wise and have always had a passion to vintage motorbikes and steam engines as well as sailing so this would be a natural progression for me, the wife on the hand still needs convincing.

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17 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

I did not realize I was in such a minority, actually even though I am a novice to narrow boats I have now turned 50 so not of the new generation age wise and have always had a passion to vintage motorbikes and steam engines as well as sailing so this would be a natural progression for me, the wife on the hand still needs convincing.

Pure speculation but I would hazard a guess that of the 30,000+  boats licenced/registered by C&RT considerably less than 1% are what could be called 'vintage engined' or 'historic' boats

I'm sure someone will have a register of historic / vintage, ex-working, craft.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 hour ago, magictime said:

Have you seen this thread that I started earlier in the year? 

It's not a boat-by-boat list of advertised vs. realized prices, but it should give you any idea of how the two have differed in the experience of buyers and sellers.

No have not come across that thread before, yes a useful guide to how prices fluctuate

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19 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

Not in my experience.  My ex FMC josher sold with three months (and I was abroad for one of those months, so couldn't deal with enquiries).  I had two offers - one for the asking price and one for slightly less.

Agree with that if a historic boat is "up together" within reason & priced realistically they sell  some times without advertising & as supply is finite the demand over supply will be greater.

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5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Pure speculation but I would hazard a guess that of the 30,000+  boats licenced/registered by C&RT considerably less than 1% are what could be called 'vintage engined'.

I'm sure someone will have a register of vintage, ex-working, craft.

I'm surprised that the figure is so low, but I have no statistics which suggest otherwise. Of course, many boats licensed by CART are cabin cruisers, which would rarely come with that type of engine.

I think I've seen a register of vintage ex-working craft, compiled by the Historic Narrowboat Club.It's on the internet, and is a good read as it has photos and histories of many of the boats. But the majority of vintage-engined boats are surely of more modern construction, the dozens of Lister-powered Hudsons being good examples.

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4 minutes ago, Athy said:

I'm surprised that the figure is so low, but I have no statistics which suggest otherwise. Of course, many boats licensed by CART are cabin cruisers, which would rarely come with that type of engine

We could always widen the scope to try and include more boats

If we look at the 'returns' for 2008 there were 88,267 boats registered across all of the Inland Waterways Navigation Authorities, but the problem is we are including an ever increasing percentage of 'tupperware'

Again - speculation but I would have expected that C&RT waters would have the highest percentage of 'historic' boats.

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4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Again - speculation but I would have expected that C&RT waters would have the highest percentage of 'historic' boats.

Yes, I totally agree. We do get them on the ML but they're uncommon. I've seen two go past our house this year.

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25 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

Well Magictime's poll wasn't very helpful was it?  All it tells me is that it's quite possible to buy a boat for 25% of its asking price or you might not get anything at all off the price  but of course what you want to know is what factors influence the spectrum of possibilities and there are just too many variables at play.  It's not like houses where you can punch in a number of parameters - location, number of bedrooms, bungalow, semi, etc.   Boats are too complex a commodity and the buyers, - and sellers, - are too unpredictable.  

It was supposed to answer such basic questions as 'I've got up to £30k to spend - should I set £30k or £40k as my maximum price on Apollo Duck or Boatsearch?' and 'what do people actually mean when they talk about having a cheeky offer accepted'?

I mean, we all know that if your budget for a house is £190k, it'd be worth your while to look at houses advertised up to £200k but not £250k (because a 5% reduction is not unusual whereas a 20%+ reduction is virtually unheard of). A lot of us, I suspect, don't have the same familiarity with the boat market.

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3 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

 

 

And do you think all brokers will freely and honestly supply that information, (particularly if you as each one every time a boat is sold!)

And of course plenty of boats are not sold through brokers.

I don't think most people on this forum could or would be able to keep such a register.

Some do.

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