Windows 10 is actually a virus, discuss

[MtB]

On 03/12/2017 at 14:49, rowland al said:

It's called old age Mike! I have the same bloomin problem.

 

I don't think so. WordPress seems a big backwards step as to do even the most basic things endless reams of plug-ins need to be found, loaded, registered etc. Things you can do in FP2000 just by finding them in the drop-down menus.

[MtB]

Oh you want to save your file? Here is a list of 16 plug-ins that will do that for you. Select the one you prefer and download and install it to your WordPress server. Ok well I exagerate somewhat, but that is what it feels like to start learning how to use WordPress.

[rowland al]

5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Oh you want to save your file? Here is a list of 16 plug-ins that will do that for you. Select the one you prefer and download and install it to your WordPress server. Ok well I exagerate somewhat, but that is what it feels like to start learning how to use WordPress.

Hard to think how they make any money out of it then.! Perhaps lots of old people pay younger sharper people to deal with it. 

Microsoft still cater for the older person who are stuck in their ways. Lots of money in that, especially if they can tie them in knots.

 

[Tony Brooks]

Another thing. The Mac OS is now based on Unix that is if you like, the closed version operating system that provided the model for Linux.  Some people hold that you can consider Unix and Linux to be so similar they are to all intents and purposes the same except Unix is closed and you pay for it while Linux is open, developed by many and is free. This is why Mac maintain the Cups printing system. What is different is that the Mac has its own closed window and desktop managers. So it seems that those who advocate the Mac are actually running a very Linux like operating system but one they pay Mac for in one way or another.

[rowland al]

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Another thing. The Mac OS is now based on Unix that is if you like, the closed version operating system that provided the model for Linux.  Some people hold that you can consider Unix and Linux to be so similar they are to all intents and purposes the same except Unix is closed and you pay for it while Linux is open, developed by many and is free. This is why Mac maintain the Cups printing system. What is different is that the Mac has its own closed window and desktop managers. So it seems that those who advocate the Mac are actually running a very Linux like operating system but one they pay Mac for in one way or another.

The way I see Tony it is that we should support those who do things fot the love of it, rather than those who do it only for money. We all have to live by money, but it doesn't make it right. 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

18 hours ago, MJG said:

Why do you think MS office or wps are your only 'office' options? I haven't used MS office since I retired 6 years ago. And there is no need to suffer ads. either.

WPS was the first option that I came across, and since I needed access to my Word documents urgently (I keep my passwords in a password protected Word document) it did the job. In fairness I only get the ads if connected to the internet, none come up (obviously) if I'm not. If that is how they finance their free program I can live with that.

[rowland al]

10 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

WPS was the first option that I came across, and since I needed access to my Word documents urgently (I keep my passwords in a password protected Word document) it did the job. In fairness I only get the ads if connected to the internet, none come up (obviously) if I'm not. If that is how they finance their free program I can live with that.

WPS has been around since the 80's just like MS Word. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

WPS was the first option that I came across, and since I needed access to my Word documents urgently (I keep my passwords in a password protected Word document) it did the job. In fairness I only get the ads if connected to the internet, none come up (obviously) if I'm not. If that is how they finance their free program I can live with that.

If you are interested in another fully MS compatible product with no ads ever then have a try of libre office. You can make donations towards its upkeep but there is absolutely no requirement to do so.

[reg]

4 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Going off at a tangent about using FP2000, I recently considered switching to WordPress as it is platform independent and used in a browser.

After spending a weekend trying to learn to work it I gave up and bought a few books about it. £40 and several dozen hours later I still couldn't get my newest website looking anything like how I wanted it (i.e. like all my others) so I gave up and went back to FP2000.  

At some point though I believe you are going to have to bite the bullet as Frontpage was discontinued about 10years ago and, according to Wikipedia, the replacement products have also been discontinued simply because they were desktop applications. 

You also have the problem that hosting sites have or will drop frontpage extension support. 

This host has some decent info on frontpage support and version support dates. 

http://www.inmotionhosting.com/support/website/frontpage/the-death-of-frontpage-extensions

So even if you can keep your Frontpage alive you will eventually have to move on, where to and when is the conundrum. 

Options appear to be

1.FP under WINE in Linux (not a long term solution but could buy you a few more years) ETA-just looked into this a bit and it doesn't look to promising, marked as garbage rating in wine database. 

2.Web development under Linux, many offerings but all will require a new learning cycle. 

3.Switching to Apple (but I don't know what their offerings are) 

4.Accepting whatever path Microsoft take you down which would appear to be sharepoint, which is not a desktop application and is rental. 

https://products.office.com/en-gb/sharepoint/compare-sharepoint-plans

Or if you want the full management and marketing BS 

https://products.office.com/en-gb/sharepoint/compare-sharepoint-plans

It looks like 1 is not a real option. 2 Requires some learning and weaning off WYSIWYG dependence, however there is a wealth of very good editors available with Html and Css capabilities. 3.not my area of knowledge but does appear to be Web and graphic developers weapon of choice and finally 4. Submit your soul to the Microsoft vision and enslave yourself to years of unending torture and heartache(less biased people may say that it is still a valid option, they may be right) 

 

Edited December 3, 2017 by reg

[Tony Brooks]

can I add to your last paragraph " an ongoing regular payments to Microsoft."

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, reg said:

At some point though I believe you are going to have to bite the bullet as Frontpage was discontinued about 10years ago and, according to Wikipedia, the replacement products have also been discontinued simply because they were desktop applications. 

You also have the problem that hosting sites have or will drop frontpage extension support. 

This host has some decent info on frontpage support and version support dates. 

http://www.inmotionhosting.com/support/website/frontpage/the-death-of-frontpage-extensions

So even if you can keep your Frontpage alive you will eventually have to move on, where to and when is the conundrum. 

Options appear to be

1.FP under WINE in Linux (not a long term solution but could buy you a few more years) ETA-just looked into this a bit and it doesn't look to promising, marked as garbage rating in wine database. 

2.Web development under Linux, many offerings but all will require a new learning cycle. 

3.Switching to Apple (but I don't know what their offerings are) 

4.Accepting whatever path Microsoft take you down which would appear to be sharepoint, which is not a desktop application and is rental. 

https://products.office.com/en-gb/sharepoint/compare-sharepoint-plans

Or if you want the full management and marketing BS 

https://products.office.com/en-gb/sharepoint/compare-sharepoint-plans

It looks like 1 is not a real option. 2 Requires some learning and weaning off WYSIWYG dependence, however there is a wealth of very good editors available with Html and Css capabilities. 3.not my area of knowledge but does appear to be Web and graphic developers weapon of choice and finally 4. Submit your soul to the Microsoft vision and enslave yourself to years of unending torture and heartache(less biased people may say that it is still a valid option, they may be right) 

 

 

Thanks for the analysis Reg. I don’t use the FP extensions which are the proprietary bit. I just use it to write plain simple static web pages containing 100% text with a common index of page links on the left hand side. I upload them using plain ftp. It is just basic internet stuff and I can’t believe how complicated it is to replicate this in WordPress!

I don’t really see why FP can’t be used for ever to write my web pages in principle. It seems ridiculously complicated to just keep things working just as they have since I first published my first web site using FP98. 

[Keeping Up]

The other option, which is not perfect, is the one I am using since my Web host stopped supporting FP extensions. I keep an old laptop running XP and  FP and I use that to maintain the website. Then I just copy the site to my desktop PC and use Filezilla, which my host does support, to automatically upload all new files. It does mean that all the hidden files from FP get copied and uploaded too, but that doesn't seem to matter.

[Tony Brooks]

23 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Thanks for the analysis Reg. I don’t use the FP extensions which are the proprietary bit. I just use it to write plain simple static web pages containing 100% text with a common index of page links on the left hand side. I upload them using plain ftp. It is just basic internet stuff and I can’t believe how complicated it is to replicate this in WordPress!

I don’t really see why FP can’t be used for ever to write my web pages in principle. It seems ridiculously complicated to just keep things working just as they have since I first published my first web site using FP98. 

Pretty much my experience and since the Front Page FTP stopped working I do mush as keeping Up, have done so for years although I do not update it very often now.

I think for your needs a word processor that outputs HTML will be fine. Ignore the purists who say it adds loads of unwanted HTML code because Frontpage was good at that as well.

Have you had a dabble of NVU for Windows?

[rowland al]

It's all a bit like how elderly people carry on trusting companies from 20-30 years ago then suddenly find out the company they trusted has ripped them off to the tune of thousands for years. 

I have lots of sympathy. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, rowland al said:

 

Edited December 3, 2017 by MJG
Get it now

[Mikexx]

4 minutes ago, MJG said:

What exactly does that mean please?

I think he's saying loyalty to a specific supplier is a recipe to being ripped off.

Not sure how that's relevant to this thread, where there is a near monopoly of supply.

 

[MtB]

On 03/12/2017 at 20:48, MJG said:

What exactly does that mean please?

 

Elderly people are terribly prone to paying British Gas £6,000 for a boiler installation that should have cost only £3k or less, for no reason beyond they trust them because "they are the Gas Board".

My dear old departed dad was one. He knew I was busy so decided not to bother me with his boiler problems and called in BG, who condemned his perfectly good old boiler that just needed repairing, and ripped him off royally. 

[Guest]

Yes both I already edited I get it now cheers.

[rowland al]

11 minutes ago, Mikexx said:

I think he's saying loyalty to a specific supplier is a recipe to being ripped off.

Not sure how that's relevant to this thread, where there is a near monopoly of supply.

 

Yes, but Microsoft don't have a monopoly do they? 

I know, it takes some effort to re-learn stuff, but that is our choice. 

Edited December 3, 2017 by rowland al

[MtB]

On 03/12/2017 at 21:05, rowland al said:

Yes, but Microsoft don't have a monopoly do they? 

I know, it takes some effort to relearn stuff, but that is our choice. 

Microsoft chose to withdraw support for a massive customerbase using XP perfectly satisfactorily for no reason beyond forcing them to buy Win 7, 8 or 10.

[Mikexx]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Pretty much my experience and since the Front Page FTP stopped working I do mush as keeping Up, have done so for years although I do not update it very often now.

I think for your needs a word processor that outputs HTML will be fine. Ignore the purists who say it adds loads of unwanted HTML code because Frontpage was good at that as well.

Have you had a dabble of NVU for Windows?

I confess to not using NVU. I used FrontPage many years ago.

However, one method I have found is to use MS Word and export as HTML.

However the pagination is awful and so I now use Libre Office Writer and export to HTML. You can write the document in Word, open in Writer and save as HTML

A noddy example is here:

http://www.videosolutions.ltd.uk/tech-articles/ULPI interface.html

It was a long time ago and might have manually added the button/link at the top. Please excuse the wrong date at the bottom!

However it comes out nicely formatted and just one lot of software to learn!

 

 

[MtB]

I'd have happily paid the price of a copy of Win 10 for another say 10 years of support for XP.

[rusty69]

9 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I'd have happily paid the price of a copy of Win 10 for another say 10 years of support for XP.

I loved xp. I loved him like a brother man, but he's gone. We must get over him and find a way to move on.

Hes gone to the pearly Gates. (These too belong to Bill) 

Mint anyone? 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2017 by rusty69

[MtB]

On 03/12/2017 at 19:32, Keeping Up said:

The other option, which is not perfect, is the one I am using since my Web host stopped supporting FP extensions. I keep an old laptop running XP and  FP and I use that to maintain the website. Then I just copy the site to my desktop PC and use Filezilla, which my host does support, to automatically upload all new files. It does mean that all the hidden files from FP get copied and uploaded too, but that doesn't seem to matter.

 

This is pretty much exactly what I do too. 

It will be far easier to just continue this way indefinitely.

[rowland al]

19 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I'd have happily paid the price of a copy of Win 10 for another say 10 years of support for XP.

Why was my reply to this deleted!