Dredging started how long does it take?

[bigcol]

Here we are, at Grove lock

lovely journey met some nice people, and some who got out of bed the wrong side.

a relaxing journey Come out of the Horton lock to Church lock stretch.

the Grief stress levels reached high!!

knowing 2 years this bit  was bad, and still our journey down a week ago still bad! knew it was going to be difficult.

but how much I didn't appreciate.

fact last time we went out on the boat was 2015, I moaned about it then seeing 2 guys dosing on a dredger, must abit had a go through frustration then.

 

2 years on there's a dredger, 2 empty barges, and 1 filled up what their doing is spreading it on adjacent field.

so yes work is being done but have never seen the dredger, any dredging carried out ever ????

do these machines work, or only when no ones around.

so yesterday was a Saturday, no one around so no noise, nothing happening

yet CRT having sold all their plant off

and the hire of the dredger is £600 per day??

sounds a lot but this I read on one of their articles or something.

so getting to the bottom( 6 inches lol)

how long has it taken so far, must be a min of 2 years so far, and how long will it take? Is their a schedule?

who checks their work?

Because still all the way it was shallow shallow passed 2 boats moored up, must be 4 ft from the side.as they can't more closer. Which you stick as close to as possible as you need to be in the centre, wow can't make a mistake?

if a boat is coming the other way you pass tight together, lots of local folks talking about it, couldn't believe we had done it

crt have wearing signs out, warning allow 30 mins extra time on the journey.

caution signs etc

 

Barges no 14, and 15 empty another empty barge oposite grove marina, and another empty big barge next to grove winding hole.

i know this question will make the forum erupt in laughter, but being over 2 years on this stretch, why can't they work 24/7?

if the licence payer is paying the hire of the dredgers daily/ weekly what's the point in having them sit ther doing absolute bugger all!!!

its not a particular long stretch,

 The  Grove stretch must have been done certainly in the 2 year time frame ( this stretch is wonderfull, wider and the sides back filled)

Ps any way we can get the 18 yobs and their gangster mates and any more bored darlings with nothing to do, give them something to do??

bless their cotton socks

Edited September 10, 2017 by bigcol

[MtB]

They tend to spend a few weeks in any given area.

 

Edit to add:

You've totally changed your post, which initially just asked how long CRT take to dredge a section of canal!

I feel your pain though, seeing profligate waste like this. Have you mentioned it to that nice Mr Parry? He tends to listen to a justified moan. 

Edited September 10, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman

[bigcol]

Well this empty barge, and the others as tlold by a couple of locals have been in the grove and now the church stretch all this time.

2 years ago the fact that the grove pub mooring next to the winding hole this barge on one like it was here back then.

i have to stress the change in the Grove stretch is totally different. A wonderful end result.

but the church stretch is.........  let's hear from folks who totally disagree with me, and say they fly through this section with no problem!

i like to think I tell it as it is, maybe I'm just a grumpy old bar steward.

seriously I'm thankfully to be here, when I first joined the forum I was at deaths door.

loretta boats uk, give us a life line back then, so have a interest, that was 8/9 years ago, consultant tells me I'm a strong person, a survivor

the forum and owning a boat has been, Wife says it's true has been my main stay.

yes had lots of bits taken away since, even got my own water waste tank lol

 

is it because I'm happy moaning lol is this what I become, I'm cracking up here with joy!!!

sorry lol have to go, I'm going try to focus on something not to moan about lol lol lol

Really really going to try, wife's ask me to promise

[Tuscan]

Grove to church was dredged in July (much improved) and then they were moving onto the 2 mile Slapton pound as this has been difficult in places for a long time. We were stuck late July above Horton for nearly 2 days as some bright spark had emptied it to get the Slapton pound up. The dredging isn't helping as all the filled hoppers go down church lock each time to empty into the field. Should have been finished around now I would have thought.

[bigcol]

1 hour ago, Tuscan said:

Grove to church was dredged in July (much improved) and then they were moving onto the 2 mile Slapton pound as this has been difficult in places for a long time. We were stuck late July above Horton for nearly 2 days as some bright spark had emptied it to get the Slapton pound up. The dredging isn't helping as all the filled hoppers go down church lock each time to empty into the field. Should have been finished around now I would have thought.

I'm afraid to say no no no way is it finished yet, because the whole stretch is still lol

i mean lol lo, it was scrapping the bottom all the way.

thats why I said who checks the work, because like 2 years ago it's worse not better.

you see where the digger and the dredger are for the 100s and 100s of sea gulls around.

 

col

[GUMPY]

Compared to how Slapton to Church was the only bad patch now (as of 2hrs ago) is the bit where the dredger is moored at present.

The bit between Church and Grove is a joke, how long before the wood and canvas rots and deposits the whole lot back in the cut?

[bigcol]

17 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Compared to how Slapton to Church was the only bad patch now (as of 2hrs ago) is the bit where the dredger is moored at present.

The bit between Church and Grove is a joke, how long before the wood and canvas rots and deposits the whole lot back in the cut?

I'm so sorry this is the stretch I meant to post about!!! Slapton to Church, the stretch where the dredger digger and barges are.

apologies

re church to Grove I didn't take too much notice of the materials used, but yes it was wood and sheeting, but hopefully wood used was serious quality.

 

 

 

 

[Murflynn]

Having spent a lifetime in the construction industry, I can confirm that public bodies love to get stuff done (not) by hiring all the resources from a 'contractor' and then failing to realise that if payment is by daily rates then nothing will ever get done properly, efficiently or at all, especially if they don't insist that their own supervisor sits on the work all day every day.  Even then the 'contractor' will find endless reasons why the work has been suspended through the fault of anyone but themselves.

Public bodies tend to shy away from properly specifying exactly what needs to be done (so the job can be measured and paid for on a results basis) because it leaves the engineer who is responsible for the work in a position of 'actual responsibility'.  That would never do: if he specifies the job inaccurately the contractor will claim extra and the accountants would then want his guts for garters.  So life goes on: canals, streetworks, earthworks, all suspended with lots of kit on site and paid for by the client; of course the accountants don't mind because they can budget precisely for the cost of pretending to do the work.  And we inherit potholes, endless motorway 'roadworks' (empty coned-off lanes), un-navigable waterways, blocked drain channels and flooding, all the result of 'budget cutbacks' (accountants' excuse again).

This summer our local authority constructed a bit of cycle track about 1km long in a field alongside a flat straight bit of country road.  For 5 months there were 3 excavators, 4 dumpers, 2 rollers and a team of men from the council's 'resident' term-contract streetworks contractor on site, hardly ever moving.  When I worked in pipeline construction this would have taken about a week to clear, grade, construct and reinstate, paid for as a lump sum leaving us (the contractor) to make a profit as a result of efficiency and good management. There is hardly any good management of such work these days, as a result of the combined efforts of permitting bodies, elfinsafety & environmental parasites, and of course the inevitable accountants who work heroically to counter the effects of budget cutbacks.

[cuthound]

14 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

Having spent a lifetime in the construction industry, I can confirm that public bodies love to get stuff done (not) by hiring all the resources from a 'contractor' and then failing to realise that if payment is by daily rates then nothing will ever get done properly, efficiently or at all, especially if they don't insist that their own supervisor sits on the work all day every day.  Even then the 'contractor' will find endless reasons why the work has been suspended through the fault of anyone but themselves.

Public bodies tend to shy away from properly specifying exactly what needs to be done (so the job can be measured and paid for on a results basis) because it leaves the engineer who is responsible for the work in a position of 'actual responsibility'.  That would never do: if he specifies the job inaccurately the contractor will claim extra and the accountants would then want his guts for garters.  So life goes on: canals, streetworks, earthworks, all suspended with lots of kit on site and paid for by the client; of course the accountants don't mind because they can budget precisely for the cost of pretending to do the work.  And we inherit potholes, endless motorway 'roadworks' (empty coned-off lanes), un-navigable waterways, blocked drain channels and flooding, all the result of 'budget cutbacks' (accountants' excuse again).

This summer our local authority constructed a bit of cycle track about 1km long in a field alongside a flat straight bit of country road.  For 5 months there were 3 excavators, 4 dumpers, 2 rollers and a team of men from the council's 'resident' term-contract streetworks contractor on site, hardly ever moving.  When I worked in pipeline construction this would have taken about a week to clear, grade, construct and reinstate, paid for as a lump sum leaving us (the contractor) to make a profit as a result of efficiency and good management. There is hardly any good management of such work these days, as a result of the combined efforts of permitting bodies, elfinsafety & environmental parasites, and of course the inevitable accountants who work heroically to counter the effects of budget cutbacks.

Completely agree.

The company I worked for could construct a data center from a brownfield site, and populate it with 30MW of power infrastructure and 30MW cooling infrastructure, data cabling, BMS, raised modular floors, security system, fire alarm and extinguishing systems, heating, lighting, decoration, finished car parks & landscaping,  in fact everything to turn it into a viable operating site 26 weeks after winning the contract.

The public sector in particular has no idea how to manage a successful project.

[WotEver]

29 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

This summer our local authority constructed a bit of cycle track about 1km long...

Close to home I watched some contractors resurface a stretch of pavement around 75m long. It took them over a week and when there was anyone actually there I counted 7 vehicles, 10 workmen and numerous machines just to lift some old tarmac, lay some Type 3, whacker it down and cover it with new tarmac. I couldn't look too closely as I was concentrating on steering around the potholes in the road...

[MtB]

Back in the 1970s 'restrictive practices' imposed by the unions were usually blamed for this type of thing. 

Now the union 'restrictive practices' have broadly been disposed of, the inefficiencies remain. Presumably as they suit everyone involved when the 'profit' motive is absent.

[sirweste]

Col, a couple of weeks back (when we were both in Marsworth, you're now moored directly behind me (hello!)) they were digging away north of grove lock every day of the week as I cross the bridge to go to work. 

Yes I found the pound south of church lock a pain still, but I guess they are on with it.

[Muddy Ditch Rich]

Not as shallow as from New Bradwell  to Cosgrove, that is not boating its ploughing.

[sirweste]

46 minutes ago, Muddy Ditch Rich said:

Not as shallow as from New Bradwell  to Cosgrove, that is not boating its ploughing.

In my opinion it's a fair bit shallower than I recall that stretch being.

[alan_fincher]

As an owner of two ex working boats that regularly traverses those stretches, I believe CRT are spot on about the areas with greatest need.

The Slapton to Church pound has consistently been one of the very worst.  It's not a case of staying in the channel, because for much of it there really hasn't been much of one for many years.

In the next pound North after that, (Church to Grove), the whole area below Church lock has been dreadful, being quite possible to ground 20 feet from the tow-path, and almost impossible to get a full depth boat anywhere near what is supposed to be a lock landing.

The Jackdaw pound is also bad in parts, though not in my experience anything like as bad as the two just mentioned.

Also in my experience nowhere anywhere through Milton Keynes, (and indeed all the way to Braunston!), even came close - none of it too bad, unless maybe with loaded boats.

So CRT have targeted the right bits, I feel sure.  Whether they are doing the right things is a different matter.

I massively share "Loddon's" concerns about simply narrowing the canal with wooden stakes and mesh, and dumping all the dredgings behind it.  It looks guaranteed to fail at some future date, although allegedly such a system can last over 20 years.  Whether it actually will I very much doubt.  I would far rather see proper piling, but admit I'm no expert in the matter.

 

[sirweste]

They haven't really narrowed the section above (south) of grove, but the mesh and stakes look like a very unusual choice to me.

[Tim Lewis]

On 9/10/2017 at 11:08, Tuscan said:

Grove to church was dredged in July (much improved) and then they were moving onto the 2 mile Slapton pound as this has been difficult in places for a long time. We were stuck late July above Horton for nearly 2 days as some bright spark had emptied it to get the Slapton pound up. The dredging isn't helping as all the filled hoppers go down church lock each time to empty into the field. Should have been finished around now I would have thought.

Has made the news!

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2017-09-12/project-underway-to-dredge-grand-union-canal/

Tim

[Muddy Ditch Rich]

Does anyone have records from the canal carrying days that show the annual tonnage of dredging that was going on then ?

 

It might be informative ?

[WotEver]

I'd have thought all those heavy, deep boats would have kept the channel clear by usage, no?

[alan_fincher]

16 hours ago, Tim Lewis said:

Has made the news!

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2017-09-12/project-underway-to-dredge-grand-union-canal/

Tim

Complete with a "stock" aerial photo of the area at the bottom of Stoke Bruerne locks, which has absolutely nothing to do with the bit they are actually dredging.

At least they have hedged theist bets by using both "Canal and River Trust" and "Canals and Rivers Trust", thus increasing their chances of getting at least something right in part of the article.

[GUMPY]

However they are also dredging a little bit between Thrupp wharf and Yardley Gobion

Edited September 13, 2017 by Loddon

[bigcol]

Any chance of dredging where we're moored lol

you can just make out the Chanel of water

were on the land, same as Pycloud lol

this was google view satellite,photo taken from Way up there in Space!!

[bigcol]

I know this is a daft daft question

but why don't CRT operating 7 days a week night and day, and start from point one and continue going.

not a bit there and here.

 

how many dredging units do CRT hire at the moment, 1,2,10? Haven't got a clue, but let's not stick plasters on it, let's do it for now,tomorrow and future generations.

were not talking about extra money because we're already high in the plant to sit around doing nothing.

start and just carrying on. Labour will be the main cost, but with all the millions we give to 3rd parties, let's get a better deal for CRT!!

CRT can take on own work force, or get a better deal, 24/7 dredging for the British canal network for the future!!

 

i love to be at these meetings that award contracts to these profit focused companies.

 

col. ps life is so much easier in my head, it's the morphine, life is good lol

[alan_fincher]

Let's just be very thankful that one of the bits of the GU most in need of dredging is actually getting some.

I have no idea about value for money of the particular contract, but at least money is being thrown at something that desperately needed doing.

[bigcol]

1 minute ago, alan_fincher said:

Let's just be very thankful that one of the bits of the GU most in need of dredging is actually getting some.

I have no idea about value for money of the particular contract, but at least money is being thrown at something that desperately needed doing.

Yep I'm thankful, just would like to see that CRT are getting value for money.

and if the stretch to Church lock has been being dredged for now 2 years, the fact it has been dredged and still Is

 it's all the way scraping the bottom.

so this means that after 2 years work, it's worse now that when they started!

how does that work out??

Re the google photos, just shows why boats gave a hard job getting to it from the bank

and why boats do come in close to our boat.

all the best

 

col