moorings? ha ha ha residential moorings are non extistant

[Tony Brooks]

One thing to consider is that it is very difficult, if not impossible, for a live-aboard who is working to keep their batteries properly charged, especially in winter, unless you have an exceptionally frugal electricity use.  All that and everything that flows from that like sub-annual battery changes are avoided if you have access to shore power and can use a mains battery charger. this usually means a marina mooring although some online moorings provide it.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Tony Brooks

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Not sure i would bother getting out of bed for £21k!

 

Yes - I agree, I'd stay in bed if it could earn me £20k - mind you I'd expect that every month.

£1k per night and 10 nights off - should be 'doable'.

[MtB]

On 09/09/2017 at 16:51, Tony Brooks said:

One thing to consider is that it is very difficult, if not impossible, for a live-aboard who is working to keep their batteries properly charged, especially in winter, unless you have an exceptionally frugal electricity use.  All that and everything that flows from that like sub-annual battery changes are avoided if you have access to shore power and can use a mains battery charger. this usually means a marina mooring although some online moorings provide it.

 

Tony makes a very good point. Generating and storing enough electricity in winter as an off-grid liveaboard I have found 'challenging' to say the least. Virtually impossible in fact, as generators and engines may not be run outside the hours of 8am to 8pm, the hours most people who have jobs will be away from their boats. 

I designed an installation I hoped would allow me to charge once a week at weekends but it was an abject failure. Daily charging (or at least alternate days) is broadly mandatory in order to keep your battery bank from needing replacing annually. 

I now have a generator so quiet, it can be used at any hour of the day or night.

[Alan de Enfield]

45 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I now have a generator so quiet, it can be used at any hour of the day or night.

I got one as well - not cheap to keep tho'

 

 

[magictime]

If you need a residential mooring and that one in Wakefield is where I think it is, you should take a look. From memory (and OK, it's been a few years) it's quite a nice, tucked-away, semi-rural spot that feels much more like a small community than the average large marina or stretch of towpath moorings. It also puts a lot of cruising options on your doorstep; the Calder and Hebble, Rochdale, Huddersfield, Selby, and Leeds-Liverpool are all within a day or so's travel.

Of course, the existence of so many different waterways in a smallish area also makes it more viable to cruise continuously within the letter and spirit of the rules while keeping your commute to a reasonable distance, especially since there are so many towns where you can moor a boat within a short walk of the train station.

[mrsmelly]

2 hours ago, pruegreenwood@gmail.com said:

Thanks that has made me laugh..thing is, I kind of need to earn a living, I have a very good job currently which does expect me to turn in, my plan is to give up work for 6 months and potter. I could move around but I know Ill get bored and hungry if I dont work, I have debts to pay off, oh what a lovely thought to run away and not pay my bills, but then what? I am not sure that I want to be on the run from debt collectors and be for ever looking over my shoulder for not paying my Student Loan back.

By " very good job currently " does that mean a job that you find so fantastic that you could never leave or simply one that pays " good " money?. Better to have little income and little outgoings and go boating.

2 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

Not sure i would bother getting out of bed for £21k!

 

I do, quite  a lot less but with zero debt I have a good lifestyle.

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, magictime said:

Snip

Of course, the existence of so many different waterways in a smallish area also makes it more viable to cruise continuously within the letter and spirit of the rules while keeping your commute to a reasonable distance, especially since there are so many towns where you can moor a boat within a short walk of the train station.

I refer you to my point about keeping the batteries charged if you CC and work in winter. Not totally impossible but probably expensive and very difficult.

[Robbo]

2 hours ago, pruegreenwood@gmail.com said:

Thanks that has made me laugh..thing is, I kind of need to earn a living, I have a very good job currently which does expect me to turn in, my plan is to give up work for 6 months and potter. I could move around but I know Ill get bored and hungry if I dont work, I have debts to pay off, oh what a lovely thought to run away and not pay my bills, but then what? I am not sure that I want to be on the run from debt collectors and be for ever looking over my shoulder for not paying my Student Loan back.

Around the canals of West Yorkshire it’s quite easy to CC and cruise a wide range to please CRT and get to a single place of work.  A lot of the canals run the same way as the railway lines so have stations close by.    There’s also a fair few moorings, most are private owned so it’s best to get on your bike and tour the towpath.

[Bee]

T'was ever thus. not many legit residential moorings but thousands of people living on boats. I have never actually seen anyone prosecuted for actually daring to live on their boat. Umpteen other infringements and no doubt people living in marinas have to be careful or simply cannot do it but within reason I've always found that so long as you pay the mooring and licence fees and don't keep a heap of crap on the towpath or start breaking cars and fencing off bits of land then trouble seldom comes bothering you.

[Prue]

I get out of bed 5 days a week for £20,000 pa, how little can I get away with earning and live easily on a barge?

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, pruegreenwood@gmail.com said:

I get out of bed 5 days a week for £20,000 pa, how little can I get away with earning and live easily on a barge?

 

I sort of assumed you wanted a narrowboat, not a barge.

[Robbo]

1 minute ago, pruegreenwood@gmail.com said:

I get out of bed 5 days a week for £20,000 pa, how little can I get away with earning and live easily on a barge?

£21,000 - boat means bring out another thousand.  So no matter what you earn, you’ll always need another grand to fix things!

[sueb]

It makes a lot of sense to keep a house. One day you will need it

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, pruegreenwood@gmail.com said:

I get out of bed 5 days a week for £20,000 pa, how little can I get away with earning and live easily on a barge?

 

Running a boat costs much the same in my experience as running a house. 

But its a much nicer lifestyle.

[RLWP]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Running a boat costs much the same in my experience as running a house. 

We met someone today who are selling their boat because it is cheaper to live in a house

Richard

[magictime]

14 minutes ago, pruegreenwood@gmail.com said:

I get out of bed 5 days a week for £20,000 pa, how little can I get away with earning and live easily on a barge?

Depends. I mean, if you're currently taking home say £14k after income tax and NI, spending half that on rent, and living comfortably on the on the other half, I guess that £7k is a reasonable starting point for what you might expect to live on if you were able to CC. Food bills the same, energy bills exchanged for similar fuel costs, council tax exchanged for a similar licence fee. You might want to add a grand for maintenance.

If you're only paying £3k mortgage and you move on to a £3k residential mooring where council tax is still payable, obviously that all goes out of the window.

[MtB]

To run a boat and look after it properly costs £5k a year in round figures. 

Various peeps here cut the £5k up in different ways, but it's hard to get under this figure and still maintain the boat in good order. 

Expenditure can be very 'lumpy' too. Some years it is £8k, others £2k. 

[Alan de Enfield]

8 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

To run a boat and look after it properly costs £5k a year in round figures. 

Various peeps here cut the £5k up in different ways, but it's hard to get under this figure and still maintain the boat in good order. 

Expenditure can be very 'lumpy' too. Some years it is £8k, others £2k. 

That is just 'boat costs' (maintenance, fuel, utilities, licence, insurance, BSS, etc) ?

 

Even 'rural Northern marinas' are likely to be £4,000 (upwards) per annum for residential moorings

[Tony Brooks]

9 hours ago, Prue said:

I get out of bed 5 days a week for £20,000 pa, how little can I get away with earning and live easily on a barge?

That needs pinning down. Many non-inland boaters call narrowboats barges while many inland boaters refer to wide beam inland boats as barges and  narrowboats as narrowboats..

First a wide beam boat might cost more in marina fees than a narrowboat but also may not.

CaRT are at the moment carrying out consultations that look as if they are designed to support them in charging higher license fees for wide beam craft. This is likely to be fairly small percentage of the cost of living on a  boat.

A wide beam boat usually has enough space to accommodate a lot of solar panels thereby helping keep the batteries charged while you are at work (except in much of winter). It also often has space for a proper marine cocooned generator that will also help to keep your batteries charged because as long a sits well installed you will not cause a nuisance by running it after 8pm or before 8am. These do not apply if you have access to shore power and they are very expensive.

A wide beam boat, unless it and you are capable of coastal navigation, will keep you on the northern waterways. If you got a good job in the future down south a wide beam boat would probably need moving by lorry. A narrowboat can be sailed south.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That is just 'boat costs' (maintenance, fuel, utilities, licence, insurance, BSS, etc) ?

 

 

Fuel or moorings included. In round terms its one or the other for a liveaboard. 

A 57ft narrowboat (typical liveaboard for one person) generally costs about £2,000 a year to moor on a leisure mooring. As previously discussed a leisure mooring can often be lived on 'below the radar' by a careful and considerate boater.  

If the boater chooses to CC, their fuel costs (again in broad terms) are likely to rise by about the same sum as they save on mooring fees. 

This is why some boaters choose to try to fudge it by having no mooring but barely move either. The savings are really quite large. 

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Even 'rural Northern marinas' are likely to be £4,000 (upwards) per annum for residential moorings

 

As previously discussed, residential moorings are rare as hens teeth and the OP can't find any, so quoting the cost of one is no help especially. 

[Naughty Cal]

6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Fuel or moorings included. In round terms its one or the other for a liveaboard. 

A 57ft narrowboat (typical liveaboard for one person) generally costs about £2,000 a year to moor on a leisure mooring. As previously discussed a leisure mooring can often be lived on 'below the radar' by a careful and considerate boater.  

If the boater chooses to CC, their fuel costs (again in broad terms) are likely to rise by about the same sum as they save on mooring fees. 

This is why some boaters choose to try to fudge it by having no mooring but barely move either. The savings are really quite large. 

 

As previously discussed, residential moorings are rare as hens teeth and the OP can't find any, so quoting the cost of one is no help especially. 

Kings Marina Newark and Hull Marina both have residential berths currently available. 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Fuel or moorings included. In round terms its one or the other for a liveaboard. 

A 57ft narrowboat (typical liveaboard for one person) generally costs about £2,000 a year to moor on a leisure mooring. As previously discussed a leisure mooring can often be lived on 'below the radar' by a careful and considerate boater.  

If the boater chooses to CC, their fuel costs (again in broad terms) are likely to rise by about the same sum as they save on mooring fees. 

This is why some boaters choose to try to fudge it by having no mooring but barely move either. The savings are really quite large. 

Indeed but, if the OP is risk averse, needs to be in a location because she is working 5 days per week, (sad aint it !!)  presumably a youngish female as she is paying off her student loans and does not need the possibility (however small) of being 'moved on' at a moments notice then she is 'right' to look for the security of a 'proper' residential mooring, - in which case she should be made aware of the true costs.

4 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Kings Marina Newark and Hull Marina both have residential berths currently available. 

 

And - I believe that Sawley also have a number available.

As I said earlier - there is not a real shortage of residential berths, just they may not be in 'your ideal place'.

[magictime]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Fuel or moorings included. In round terms its one or the other for a liveaboard. 

A 57ft narrowboat (typical liveaboard for one person) generally costs about £2,000 a year to moor on a leisure mooring. As previously discussed a leisure mooring can often be lived on 'below the radar' by a careful and considerate boater.  

If the boater chooses to CC, their fuel costs (again in broad terms) are likely to rise by about the same sum as they save on mooring fees. 

If they choose to travel about 3000 miles a year, sure, that looks like a reasonable guesstimate. What if they choose to travel about 300?

Edited September 10, 2017 by magictime

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, magictime said:

If they choose to travel about 3000 miles a year, sure, that looks like a reasonable guesstimate. What if they choose to travel about 300?

 

Now you are getting into specifics.

As I first said, in broad terms running a boat cost £5,000 a year. 

This means that people who actually keep proper records usually, but not always, report annual costs in the order of £5,000 a year. And it might vary substantially from year to year. 

Its a realistic sum to use as a kicking off point. The OP is only at the 'considering a boat' stage!

[magictime]

53 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Now you are getting into specifics.

As I first said, in broad terms ...

Yes, but I don't see what justifies the assumption that, even 'in broad terms', you're likely to spend an extra £2000 or so on fuel if you choose to CC instead of spending £2000 or so on a mooring. You could just as easily spend an extra £200.

You talk about the 'really quite large' savings made by CMers, but if your point of comparison is a CCer spending £2000 on diesel for propulsion and cruising (say) 3000 miles, 90% of that saving is also made by someone spending £200 and cruising (say) 300.

Point taken about £5000 being a realistic starting point, but it is only a starting point. Whether you take a home mooring you not, and how far you cruise if you choose not to, are surely just the sort of things that will determine whether your actual costs end up being more like £4000 or more like £6000.