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Nick D

What sort of anchor?

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Nick D    0

We are taking our boat to its new mooring on the Aire & Calder and will hopefully be doing a fair bit of cruising on the adjacent waterways including the tidal parts of the Ouse and the Trent.  I know that I will need to buy an anchor, but the choice and variet is overwhelming.  Can anyone advise the best type?  Our boat is 58' and I imagine is standard weight etc.  Thanks in advance.

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mrsmelly Contributor    1,244
1 minute ago, Nick D said:

We are taking our boat to its new mooring on the Aire & Calder and will hopefully be doing a fair bit of cruising on the adjacent waterways including the tidal parts of the Ouse and the Trent.  I know that I will need to buy an anchor, but the choice and variet is overwhelming.  Can anyone advise the best type?  Our boat is 58' and I imagine is standard weight etc.  Thanks in advance.

20 kg Danforth and of course a good length of heavy chain and warp ( rope ) preferably fixed to a  dedicated solid bracket on the boat. The length of chain holds the anchor onto the river bed. 

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howardang    64
Quote

 

 

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

20 kg Danforth and of course a good length of heavy chain and warp ( rope ) preferably fixed to a  dedicated solid bracket on the boat. The length of chain holds the anchor onto the river bed. 

Popcorn anyone?:)

Howard

 

Edited by howardang

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Tony Brooks    617

The Daforth can stand upright or lay nearly flat when compared with plough type anchors so although it may have certain shortcomings with certain types of ground its a fair compromise for a narrowboat. Anyway, often it will just be a glorified mud weight.

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Flyboy    46

A Danforth won't stay upright if it has the correct amount of chain/rope attached and it's being dragged along a flowing river bed.

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Tony Brooks    617
1 hour ago, Flyboy said:

A Danforth won't stay upright if it has the correct amount of chain/rope attached and it's being dragged along a flowing river bed.

I was on about when stored on the boat, not when deployed.

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Up-Side-Down    24
4 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

20 kg Danforth and of course a good length of heavy chain and warp ( rope ) preferably fixed to a  dedicated solid bracket on the boat. The length of chain holds the anchor onto the river bed. 

Minimum of 5m of 10mm chain for your vessel. Combined length of chain and warp should be between 4x and 5x maximum depth of water that you expect to have to deploy the anchor in. Add a metre or two to account for the distance between the waterline and where the rope is made off to. I use 20mm warp for my 60ft nb (22 1/2 tons) as much as anything because the thicker the rope (within reason) the easier it is on the hands when hauling it in. All my mooring ropes are the same thickness, partly for the same reason, and partly because I've previously had long-term moorings on a tideway.

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bizzard    870

East coast, muddy bottom. West coast rocky bottom.  Own bottom, crinkly.

  • Haha 1

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Flyboy    46
2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I was on about when stored on the boat, not when deployed.

Oops, sorry I misinterpreted your post.

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Nick D    0
On 06/09/2017 at 14:45, Up-Side-Down said:

Minimum of 5m of 10mm chain for your vessel. Combined length of chain and warp should be between 4x and 5x maximum depth of water that you expect to have to deploy the anchor in. Add a metre or two to account for the distance between the waterline and where the rope is made off to. I use 20mm warp for my 60ft nb (22 1/2 tons) as much as anything because the thicker the rope (within reason) the easier it is on the hands when hauling it in. All my mooring ropes are the same thickness, partly for the same reason, and partly because I've previously had long-term moorings on a tideway.

Sorry if I'm being a bit dense but what would your advice be for the total length and the split between rope/chain assuming that I am on rivers such at the Trent and Ouse? Thanks.

 

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Tony Brooks    617
On 06/09/2017 at 14:45, Up-Side-Down said:

Minimum of 5m of 10mm chain for your vessel. Combined length of chain and warp should be between 4x and 5x maximum depth of water that you expect to have to deploy the anchor in. Add a metre or two to account for the distance between the waterline and where the rope is made off to. I use 20mm warp for my 60ft nb (22 1/2 tons) as much as anything because the thicker the rope (within reason) the easier it is on the hands when hauling it in. All my mooring ropes are the same thickness, partly for the same reason, and partly because I've previously had long-term moorings on a tideway.

Is that 20mm circumference or diameter? I think rope measurement has changed from circumference to diameter some years ago.

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howardang    64
2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Is that 20mm circumference or diameter? I think rope measurement has changed from circumference to diameter some years ago.

I hope he means 20mm diameter - 20mm circumference is only 6.4mm diameter, which is more like thick cord and certainly would be useless as an anchor warp or mooring rope.:)

 

Howard

 

 

 

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Naughty Cal    749
19 hours ago, Nick D said:

Sorry if I'm being a bit dense but what would your advice be for the total length and the split between rope/chain assuming that I am on rivers such at the Trent and Ouse? Thanks.

 

For the same waters we carry 100ft of 8mm chain. But we have the benefit of a dedicated anchor locker and electric winch.

If you are working on a combination of chain and rope then certainly no less then 5m of chain and working on 6 times water depth to hold safely you wouldn't want any less then about 30m of good quality rope attached to a suitable point on the boat.

We came out of West Stockwith on bank holiday monday behind a narrowboat who hit a submerged obstruction which cut his engine out and damaged his gearbox as he exited the lock. Luckily he was carrying a suitable anchor and chain/rope as he was able to secure his boat before he was swept too far upsteam by the current. He was also carrying and able to use his VHF radio so that the lockies could communicate with him and also the narrowboat who came to his rescue and towed him to Torksey could communicate with him.

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Up-Side-Down    24
On 08/09/2017 at 08:12, Tony Brooks said:

Is that 20mm circumference or diameter? I think rope measurement has changed from circumference to diameter some years ago.

Diameter!

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Up-Side-Down    24
On 07/09/2017 at 18:19, Nick D said:

Sorry if I'm being a bit dense but what would your advice be for the total length and the split between rope/chain assuming that I am on rivers such at the Trent and Ouse? Thanks.

 

Look up the maximum depth of the rivers you intend to navigate and then go for a combined length of warp and chain that is 5x that depth. Taking the River Clyde as an example, this has a maximum navigable depth of a tad over 8m so 5x that depth is 41m which can be made up of 5m of 10mm chain and 35m of 20mm (diameter) warp (of a non-floating variety). Increasing the chain to 10m would mean adding 30m warp and so on. Bear in mind that the chain component is heavy to handle (without a winch) but is essential to ensure that the anchor lies horizontally on the bottom and 'bites' so that 5m minimum is something of a compromise.

I use one of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Faithfull-FLEX15Y-Polyethylene-Flex-Black/dp/B001OXFHKU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1504943674&sr=8-2&keywords=plasters+bucket placing the chain  in the bottom centre and the warp coiled above and around the outside. Just ensure that the end of the chain shackled to the anchor runs between the bucket side and the rope so that it does not prevent the rope being paid out! And that the rope is attached to the boat from the get go!! (ideally shackled to it's own dedicated eye rather than the T stud where it can get in the way of your mooring rope).

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bizzard    870

Better take about 15 miles of anchor warp just in case you need to anchor over an Indian or Pacific ocean trench. Always be prepared,''Boy scouts motto''.

Edited by bizzard

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Nick D    0

Try as hard as I might, I can't seem to find an easy way of discovering how deep various rivers are. What would be really helpful is if anyone who cruises the tidal Ouse and Trent rivers could advise how long their combined chain and rope is for their anchor.  If I have understood correctly, the best type of anchor would be a 20kg Danforth, but help on the rope/chain would be really appreciated.  Many thanks in advance.

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Alan de Enfield    1,067
6 minutes ago, Nick D said:

the best type of anchor would be a 20kg Danforth

That is in no way the 'best' type of anchor, it is what NBoaters use as it folds flat for easy storage & it give the steerer a (false) sense of security.

The Trent tends to be between 6 feet and 30 feet deep - but in times of 'flood' it could be several feet deeper.

I have actually witnessed a 'good' anchor and sufficient chain preventing a NB from being swept under the dolphins and over the weir at Cromwell (the site where 10 soldiers - Royal Engineers, Sappers - died when their boat was swept over the weir) We had to then go along side, tie up and tow him upstream to safety.

I have 60 metres of 10mm chain at a weight of about 2.5 kgs / metre and a cost of roughly £7.00 per metre

If you have 100% chain then you should have a minimum of 3x depth (say 3x 10 metres) and ideally 5x depth. If you have 50% chain / 50% rope then you are looking at a minimum of 7x depth.

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Alan de Enfield    1,067
1 minute ago, Nick D said:

Now I'm really confused! So what is the best type of anchor?

The best type would be one of the following :

Fortress

Manson

Mantus

Next best would be one of these :

Plough

Ultra

Rocna

Next best would be :

CQR

Bruce

And finally :

Danforth

 

The Danforth is the only anchor that stows 'flat' hence its popularity with NBers.

Unfortunately, if an Inland waterways  boat needs to deploy an anchor it is normally an 'emergency' and you need to have the confidence that it will work 1st time, every time.

When 'lumpy water' boaters deploy the anchor it can be just as a 'lunch-hook' (just a break whilst you have lunch), just for fun, or to hold you overnight. Generally it is all planned and time is given to reset the anchor if it drags - you will not have that time.

If the engine / gearbox packs-up a 100 yards from one of the big weirs on the Trent you only get on chance to 'set the hook'.

 

There will now be a number of posters claiming I am scaremongering and NBs don't need VHF, lifejackets or anchors etc etc - but I HAVE been there. 

 

It is your choice.

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rusty69    366
2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The best type would be one of the following :

Fortress

Manson

Mantus

Next best would be one of these :

Plough

Ultra

Rocna

Next best would be :

CQR

Bruce

And finally :

Danforth

 

The Danforth is the only anchor that stows 'flat' hence its popularity with NBers.

Unfortunately, if an Inland waterways  boat needs to deploy an anchor it is normally an 'emergency' and you need to have the confidence that it will work 1st time, every time.

When 'lumpy water' boaters deploy the anchor it can be just as a 'lunch-hook' (just a break whilst you have lunch), just for fun, or to hold you overnight. Generally it is all planned and time is given to reset the anchor if it drags - you will not have that time.

If the engine / gearbox packs-up a 100 yards from one of the big weirs on the Trent you only get on chance to 'set the hook'.

 

There will now be a number of posters claiming I am scaremongering and NBs don't need VHF, lifejackets or anchors etc etc - but I HAVE been there. 

 

It is your choice.

Whats the difference between a fortress and Danforth? 

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Nick D    0

Thanks Alan, I appreciate that anchors for narrowboats on tidal waters are for emergency use only and on the rare occasion that they will be deployed you want to be sure that they work so I would prefer to have the right one rather than one that just stores nicely.  It will only be occasionally that we venture onto tidal waters so can always keep it at home if necessary when we are just out on the cut.  Would you still suggest that 20kg is the right weight?

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Alan de Enfield    1,067
1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Whats the difference between a fortress and Danforth? 

An enormous difference - but basically it is all in the 'angles'. It is designed to set quickly and very, very securely.

It is also (uniquely) manufactured from Aluminimum and still out performs many anchors.

 

The US Coastguard has specified the 9.5kg Fortress for use on its 45 foot Patrol Boats - one would have though way, way, undersize, - but - apparently not

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rusty69    366
1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

An enormous difference - but basically it is all in the 'angles'. It is designed to set quickly and very, very securely.

It is also (uniquely) manufactured from Aluminimum and still out performs many anchors.

 

The US Coastguard has specified the 9.5kg Fortress for use on its 45 foot Patrol Boats - one would have though way, way, undersize, - but - apparently not

Thanks. A bit of Googling found this:

While the Fortress Anchor is almost indistinguishable from the original Danforth to the untrained eye, Fortress Marine has made a number of significant improvements. The Fortress’ fluke angle can be adjusted to match varying bottom conditions, the tripping palms can be modified to assist in setting, and its construction from aluminum-magnesium alloy offers even greater weight savings without sacrificing strength. The Fortress can also be easily disassembled for easy storage 

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