Inverter

[Pastida@1]

Lots of questions to ask before I start fitting out the sailaway.  Looking at inverters and was wondering what is the best way to go.  We will have a washing machine for occasional use.  A 240v tv in the saloon and have a few sockets round the boat for stuff as we need.  I'm looking at at least a 3000w inverter charger.  I've looked at victron and sterling.  Are these good as they are expensive.  I don't mind paying for a good unit.  I will be having at least a 600AH battery bank which should run all the 12v and 240v stuff.  I only plan to switch the inverter on as and when needed.  I will also have 600w of solar panels to help with charging.  Any good ideas would be appreciated

Cheers

John 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Pastida@1

[rusty69]

Also consider Mastervolt. 

[Machpoint005]

600w? Calculated how?

I'd be interested to learn how you can get 3kW from an inverter connected to it!

Edited August 24, 2017 by Machpoint005

[Pastida@1]

 will have a look online at those now

Cheers

John 

600AH oops lol 

 

[Machpoint005]

1 minute ago, Pastida@1 said:

 600AH oops lol

Bugger! I thought you were onto something there!

[OldGoat]

   Might I suggest that you step back a bit and refine your needs somewhat -

you mention an inverter charger - which implies that you'll be on a landline for some / most / all of the time? So would is not be sensible to run the washer only whne you're connected to the landline?

You say "600w" - do you mean 600 a/h of battery capacity?  Even that capacity is a bit mall to be running the washing machine regularly. Again how are you going to charge the batteries when you are away from your landline?

If you take the washer out of the equation you could have a smaller inverter charger - say 1200w which will be more than enough to run a TV (100w) and phone chargers / laptops etc.

Have a think and come back.

[Paringa]

I would also consider going separate invertor and charger.

[rusty69]

I assume you will have a 12V or gas fridge. You could also consider a 12V tv, depending on your needs. 

[Robbo]

A Combi has the extra benefit over separates as they have power assist which can boost the shore/genny power if required and the charging also adapts to the load as well.   Victron and Mastervolt are expensive, but are worth it.  Sterling has a hit and miss reputation.

If you are off-grid, especially in winter, the best thing you can do is look to how you will be generating your power.   This is really the starting point of any power system solution.  (apart from how much power you will be using daily).

[NB Lola]

I remember from other posts here that there can be issues with some washing machines if you do not use pure sine wave inverter products.

[Alan de Enfield]

I'm not sure that a 600ah battery bank is going to be big enough.

On full power the 3kw inverter will be drawing 300amps - you need big cables and big batteries to support that. The important factor is how will you replace those 'electrical currants' that you have so easily consumed ?

If you are planning on a 'floating flat' then investigate having  proper marine generator installed (cost £7000-£10,000)

Solar will be of absolutely no use at all for 5 months (or so) of the year - at the time when you are using most electricity you are producing the least.

[nicknorman]

There are quite a lot of luddites on here who think that boating should be an endurance test, and anyone who has more than a couple of candles is a  techy fool!

My advice is to buy Mastervolt. More expensive, but more robust and less flaky!

But one point: it's all very well having a huge inverter and a big battery bank, but remember that whatever you take out of the batteries has to be put back, and this takes a LONG TIME even with plenty of charging power available. The chemistry of batteries intrinsically means they take ages to fully charge. You have solar to help charge the batteries. Great in summer. Near useless in winter.

Try to avoid running the washing machine from the batteries, and then recharging the batteries. Better to run the washing machine only when the engine is on, with a decent alternator. Fill the wash cycle with warm/hot water, heated "for free" from a calorifier. Consider a compact washing machine - ours only takes 1600w when the heater is on. Once the heating of the water on a wash cycle is finished, the washing machine doesn't take much power.

[Alan de Enfield]

Three questions :

1) During the winter how much power will I be using ?

2) How can I generate the answer given in '1' above plus 25%

3) How can I store the answer given in '2' above.

That will determine the infrastructure you need to service you anticipated usage - If you suddenly decide to add an electric kettle, toaster, electric blanket, hair dryer etc, recalculate.

[WotEver]

1) In any one day. 

2) In a single day. 

3) x 2

[Pastida@1]

We were thinking of using the washer once a week ish. Thought it's best to plan for all options so I don't regret fitting stuff that we want to upgrade in the near future.  I only want to do this once.  We plan on being self sufficient with power.  Solar power and engine should be enough to get by.  

[rusty69]

5 minutes ago, Pastida@1 said:

Solar power and engine should be enough to get by.  

Did you reach this conclusion as a result of your power audit?

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, Pastida@1 said:

We were thinking of using the washer once a week ish. Thought it's best to plan for all options so I don't regret fitting stuff that we want to upgrade in the near future.  I only want to do this once.  We plan on being self sufficient with power.  Solar power and engine should be enough to get by.  

I am tempted to observe that we may have heard this before and my dad would say "famous last words"

[Robbo]

9 minutes ago, Pastida@1 said:

We were thinking of using the washer once a week ish. Thought it's best to plan for all options so I don't regret fitting stuff that we want to upgrade in the near future.  I only want to do this once.  We plan on being self sufficient with power.  Solar power and engine should be enough to get by.  

An engine doesn't produce electric.  Alternators n Travel Powers do that are bolted on to the engine.  The standard alternator that comes with the majority of engines will only be designed for charging the starter battery.   If you are are using medium to heavy power usage person then you'll want something better.  Solar won't provide anything in winter.

Note, generating electric in winter when off-grid is what you should be planning and researching, this is one of the biggest ball ache's of off-grid boating and getting it right is nice.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Robbo

[Pastida@1]

Ha ha I know what u mean.  We are planning on 6 trojan 6v batteries at 225ah.  Linked in pairs that will give us 675ah of power.  The engine is 42hp with upgraded alternators so should be good for charging.  Should get some charge from solar using mono panels too.  Fridge freezer will be 12v.  Saloon tv 240v. Bedroom tv 12v. 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Pastida@1

[Pastida@1]

9 minutes ago, Pastida@1 said:

Ha ha I know what u mean.  We are planning on 6 to Jan 6v batteries at 225ah.  Linked in pairs that will give us 675ah of power.  The engine is 42hp with upgraded alternators so should be good for charging.  Should get some charge from solar using mono panels too.  

 

[OldGoat]

The term 'power audit' sends folks running for cover - but to avoid tears later it would be best ('specially as you want to do the job once and once only), so what else migh you have -

• microwave cooker
• coffee maker
• electric kettle
• large hi-fi 
• tumble dryer - or is the washer a combi
• hair dryer(s)
• other devices that you think are inconsequential - for instance a laptop charger takes quite a bit of power

Too late to go for 24v - a pity - but I'd be tempted to bump up the batteries to 8 units and (depending on the 'quality' of the alternator) some form of battery management device - Sterling /  Adverc / whatever. There are so many threads on here where folks have destroyed their batteries by just not charging them properly.

[rusty69]

Fridge,freezer,water pumps

Edited August 24, 2017 by rusty69

[Pastida@1]

I can fit anything as I'm still planning.  The boat not ready till Nov and as it's a foam sprayed sailaway I have a blank canvas to start from.  The more ideas I get the better.  Very useful asking questions on here.  No electric kettle lol.  No microwave either. Maybe the wife might use a hairdryer once a week though.  We will charge phones and laptop from 12v sockets.  

Edited August 24, 2017 by Pastida@1

[Alan de Enfield]

30 minutes ago, Pastida@1 said:

Solar power and engine should be enough to get by.  

Do you plan to run your engine 4-8 hours per day in the Winter ?

If you have it all 'sorted' then why come here to ask questions ?

If you were expecting a 'what a clever guy you are, you have considered everything' then you will be disappointed.

Learn from the mistakes of others - after all, (you say) you only want to do it once

2 minutes ago, Pastida@1 said:

We will charge phones and laptop from 12v sockets.

That's OK then you don't need to count them then. !!!!!!

[Pastida@1]

What a totally useless answer.  I'm asking questions and expect constructive replies. 

Not sarcasm

Cheers

John