Anyone tried a kildwick compost loo?

[Bargebuilder]

Thanks rusty69, 

I just found a pdf of the instructions, and they contradict the quote that I included above from their Web sit. The instructions that are included with the unit indicate that men can use the loo whilst standing up, but do warn of possible splashing.

The instructions also recommend the use of paper bowl liners for a clean 'flush', but I'm not sure what happens if one produces solids and liquids at the same sitting!

[Bargebuilder]

I am right behind those satisfied users of the Airhead, but I have read through their list of 'advantages' over alternative composting set-ups, and to be honest, they seem a bit 'thin'. 

The Airhead is no more or less a true composter than a £100 home made separator composter, with subsequent composting outside of the unit being necessary for an additional 2-4 months.

A nicely made diy composting loo such as can be seen at http://www.littlehouse.co/product-category/eco-loo/  in my opinion looks a lot nicer than the rather functional looking Airhead, with a saving of £800 plus.  I do appreciate that some folks don't do diy of course.

[Up-Side-Down]

41 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Am I reading from the Airhead website incorrectly, or is yours a slightly different model?

It states "Request that men sit for every use, and point out the lever for making solid deposits disappear."

'Getting down and dirty', so to speak, let me quote from the delightfully worded destructions:

 

Type 'One' Usage (liquids)

Women can use the AirHead like a standard toilet, except there is nothing to flush. Men may stand. Avoid targeting trap door directly to avoid spatter. The best results may be achieved with a banking shot, aimed for bullseye (Fig 13)*. DO NOT aim directly into any of the three holes.

Note: in rough weather or times of significant boat heel, all parties sitting will maximise separation efficiency.

 

*My limited IT skills prevent me reproducing Fig 13!

[Up-Side-Down]

31 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Thanks rusty69, 

I just found a pdf of the instructions, and they contradict the quote that I included above from their Web sit. The instructions that are included with the unit indicate that men can use the loo whilst standing up, but do warn of possible splashing.

The instructions also recommend the use of paper bowl liners for a clean 'flush', but I'm not sure what happens if one produces solids and liquids at the same sitting!

Not a problem whatsoever. As originally recommended, I use percolator-type coffee filters to line the dropping zone and they do not interfere in any way with the activity of the other orifice! However, I am now unable to look a filter coffee in the eye ever again!!

As with everything to do with 'composting' loos it is all very simple 'technology' and in my experience it works without any drama. The AirHead is certainly expensive but it is very well made and it performs effortlessly (leaving me to do likewise). The key factor in my installation (and I guess this will be significant to a lot of people contemplating a change of loo) is the front-to-back measurement of the space available. For the reason outlined in my original post I was replacing a dump through Traveller, which sat on a pump out tank which was 19" front-to-back. While the AirHead has a similar measurement, the Villa etc tend to be of a greater dimension, usually somewhere in the region of 24". 

[rusty69]

13 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

I am right behind those satisfied users of the Airhead, but

The Airhead, so good, you gotta queue to poo! 

[Up-Side-Down]

2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

The Airhead, so good, you gotta queue to poo! 

At 19" front-to-back, there's certainly only room for one at a time ..........

[Bargebuilder]

Just acting as Devil's advocate, if the problem of bags of partially composted toilet waste being deposited in C&RT bins is a real one, then maybe one day they will provide a receptacle especially designed for the purpose, in the same way as councils provide bins for raw dog poo.

Clearly, pump out stations will probably always be essential, but even after the initial infrastructure cost, the cost of ongoing maintenance, safety inspections, emergency breakdowns and sewage collections where tanks are involved must be huge.

Providing a plastic bin for partially/fully composted toilet waste would be simple and cheap, and 20Kg of dried out poo would equate to about 1 & 1/2 tonnes of sewage from a typical macerator toilet over 6 months.

We already know that local authorities insist that the preferred option for disposing of dessicated human poo is as part of the normal household waste collection, so the contents of these new 'poo bins' going to landfill, presumably wouldn't cause a problem.

Just maybe, the C&RT would actually prefer disposing of solid human waste over liquid sewage!

[Up-Side-Down]

15 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Just acting as Devil's advocate, if the problem of bags of partially composted toilet waste being deposited in C&RT bins is a real one, then maybe one day they will provide a receptacle especially designed for the purpose, in the same way as councils provide bins for raw dog poo.

Clearly, pump out stations will probably always be essential, but even after the initial infrastructure cost, the cost of ongoing maintenance, safety inspections, emergency breakdowns and sewage collections where tanks are involved must be huge.

Providing a plastic bin for partially/fully composted toilet waste would be simple and cheap, and 20Kg of dried out poo would equate to about 1 & 1/2 tonnes of sewage from a typical macerator toilet over 6 months.

We already know that local authorities insist that the preferred option for disposing of dessicated human poo is as part of the normal household waste collection, so the contents of these new 'poo bins' going to landfill, presumably wouldn't cause a problem.

Just maybe, the C&RT would actually prefer disposing of solid human waste over liquid sewage!

Good thinking Bargebuilder ........ no, in fact, GREAT THINKING!! Do they do 'Brownies" instead of 'Greenies' for posts of this nature? Take one anyway!

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

They're all the same model for blokes, its only the size that differs 

Nah - they are all 6"

[WotEver]

6 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

their Web sit

No, you can stand.

[adam1uk]

7 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

Thanks rusty69, 

I just found a pdf of the instructions, and they contradict the quote that I included above from their Web sit. The instructions that are included with the unit indicate that men can use the loo whilst standing up, but do warn of possible splashing.

The instructions also recommend the use of paper bowl liners for a clean 'flush', but I'm not sure what happens if one produces solids and liquids at the same sitting!

We found standing allowed too much liquid to get into the solids bucket, and since we instituted an 'everyone must sit down' regime, everything is a lot dryer.

[Up-Side-Down]

2 hours ago, adam1uk said:

We found standing allowed too much liquid to get into the solids bucket, and since we instituted an 'everyone must sit down' regime, everything is a lot dryer.

Standing poses no problems – nothing is getting into the wrong container. What make is your loo?

[Drayke]

9 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

 

Providing a plastic bin for partially/fully composted toilet waste would be simple and cheap, and 20Kg of dried out poo would equate to about 1 & 1/2 tonnes of sewage from a typical macerator toilet over 6 months.

We already know that local authorities insist that the preferred option for disposing of dessicated human poo is as part of the normal household waste collection, so the contents of these new 'poo bins' going to landfill, presumably wouldn't cause a problem.

Just maybe, the C&RT would actually prefer disposing of solid human waste over liquid sewage!

The trouble with this is you would get some numpties disposing of their cassettes into them.

[Bargebuilder]

If the C&RT are not keen to have partially composted toilet waste deposited in with the other rubbish, then they can either provide a suitable container or attempt to police a ban.

Accepting that such waste is being produced and providing a suitable container for it might be preferable to driving those with the inclination to chuck it in the hedgerow.

If the C&RT are happy to have suitably bagged toilet matter put in their bins, then it might be better for the environment for them to say so.

[BruceinSanity]

10 hours ago, F DRAYKE said:

The trouble with this is you would get some numpties disposing of their cassettes into them.

Since people apparently can't tell the difference between the general waste skip and the mixed recycling one, I have no doubt that's right.

[tomsk]

On ‎24‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 11:36, OldGoat said:

Yours and previous similar comments ha made me realise that that is precisely what will  happen. The majority of folks asking are new CCers who probably don't have any affinity for their environment in general or canals in particular. Rubbish disposal is at best poorly provided and Councils waste management is just not set up to deal with human waste - even where they have a cesspit emptying service. The thought of some poor lorry driver driving over bags of ordure as he dumps his load (sic!) at the landfill site fills me with horror. Dumping even small (relatively) quantities of urine into a hedgerow or worse - into a waterway reduces 'us' into a third world country.

Should I / we be concerned or are just being a bit prissy?

Discuss.  

I forthrightly maintain and always will for very simple and patently obvious reasons that live-aboard continuous cruisers are the very last people likely to be able to properly manage a true composting process, space or time-wise without becoming unhealthily obsessed and effectively ruled by your bog.

It seems recently that more are choosing the composting route yet are quite open and straightforward about not being able to compost and freely admit to using Elsans and so forth, disposing of their excretions responsibly, even if via a pointlessly complicated, unworkable but achingly on-trend route.

I have absolute respect for what is their personal choice and admire their honesty.

They are not composting though.

Composting is something quite different.

 

[tomsk]

On ‎24‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 13:43, frahkn said:

This has been said a few times but I'm not sure it's correct.

I posted the following on a similar thread any no-one came back to argue with it.

I don’t follow this “huge volumes of shit” argument. I give you these figures and invite you to pull them apart.
If I give up a third of my forward hold I can fit a plastic kitchen bin measuring 34cm x 34cm x 100cm in it (I have one there at the moment).
This has an internal volume of say 100,000 cc.
The average volume of a persons stool is 130 cc per day (**). Add to this, a further 130 cc of coconut fibre (or whatever).
So even if there is no volume loss while in the toilet (unlikely given that there is a constant air draft and stool is 90% water) the total daily volume of “product’ will be  260 cc per person per day.
Therefore my kitchen bin can hold 380 days worth of product.
 
** Stool patterns of healthy adult males by Robert C Rendtorff Sc, D, M.D. and Mark Kashgarian M.D.  Tennessee College of Medicine.
 

I don't have a composting toilet but I am thinking of replacing my macerator pump-out with one next year. I would not do it unless I can truly compost the output and take it home to my garden compost bin (say) once a year.

Frank.

Regardless of Messrs Rendtorff and Kashgarians doubtless entirely scientific fascination with average stool size and taking on trust its authority its findings are demonstrably inaccurate in real world, space-poor, boaty terms.

The sums have been done to death using timescale and volume data provided by composting enthusiasts both theoretical and actual and other reputable sources and agreed by all and are easily searchable.

[mrsmelly]

I think myself and others though are missing something here without a composting bog. It must be great for a composting bog owner when they have friends round one evening for dinner as they can now proudly announce that not only are the luscious tomatoes on the starter home grown in our own greenhouse but we actualy can tell you whose crap its been fertilised by as it was me or the missus, would you like to see it?

[peterboat]

8 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I think myself and others though are missing something here without a composting bog. It must be great for a composting bog owner when they have friends round one evening for dinner as they can now proudly announce that not only are the luscious tomatoes on the starter home grown in our own greenhouse but we actualy can tell you whose crap its been fertilised by as it was me or the missus, would you like to see it?

My mates have been doing this for years with my 3 monthly donations!! Sadly they are now selling the house and moving on board, they are also ripping out the pumpout and fitting a composting loo, just goes to show the future is composting

[mrsmelly]

2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

My mates have been doing this for years with my 3 monthly donations!! Sadly they are now selling the house and moving on board, they are also ripping out the pumpout and fitting a composting loo, just goes to show the future is composting

 stop it stop it Peter you will tell me electric cars are viable next

[rusty69]

12 minutes ago, peterboat said:

My mates have been doing this for years with my 3 monthly donations!! Sadly they are now selling the house and moving on board, they are also ripping out the pumpout and fitting a composting loo, just goes to show the future is composting

If you are making donations/deposits on a regular basis, you should be rewarded with a return dividend/interest.

[Bargebuilder]

5 hours ago, tomsk said:

Regardless of Messrs Rendtorff and Kashgarians doubtless entirely scientific fascination with average stool size and taking on trust its authority its findings are demonstrably inaccurate in real world, space-poor, boaty terms.

I have an in-use bucket and two other containers on deck. The in-use bucket takes approximately 2 months to half fill because the contents shrink as they are added to. Without actually weighing it, I would estimate that when the maturing container is emptied, about 6 months after the first 'contribution' was deposited, it weighs 6-8Kg, which surely demonstrates just how accurate the offered figures are.

We are talking very small volumes of partially composted product, easily and discretely contained in a small top box or small bucket.

 

[frahkn]

6 hours ago, tomsk said:

Regardless of Messrs Rendtorff and Kashgarians doubtless entirely scientific fascination with average stool size and taking on trust its authority its findings are demonstrably inaccurate in real world, space-poor, boaty terms.

The sums have been done to death using timescale and volume data provided by composting enthusiasts both theoretical and actual and other reputable sources and agreed by all and are easily searchable.

I must admit that I was a little surprised at the figure of 130 cc per day for an average adult (that's why I included the reference).

Still the fact is that it remains unchallenged. Your own hypothesis, that different figures would pertain if the research were repeated on a boat, would make a good PhD for someone but not me.

 

 

[MtB]

35 minutes ago, peterboat said:

My mates have been doing this for years with my 3 monthly donations!! 

 

I suggest you see a doctor. Most people use the loo more frequently than every three months. 

[Bargebuilder]

Having put the effort in, to produce a compost that is beneficial to plant life, most people will be keen to grow better tomatoes or roses, but even if the compost is put in the bin, we are talking just 40Kg going to landfill for two people each year. 

If this had been sent in its raw state to the sewage processing plant, then over the same period, the same two people would have sent between 300 and 400Kg of poo.

If our example couple hadn't dug in, or sent their 40Kg of solids each year to landfill, they might have used a macerating toilet, mixed their 400Kg of raw faeces with 1,500l of precious drinking water and sent it away for the authorities to process.

At the sewage works, at not inconsiderable expense, the solids are then extracted forming a sludge. This may then be de-watered, digested or composted and ultimately sent to landfill, spread directly on the land or even incinerated.

The 1&1/2 tonnes of flushing water then has to be filtered, digested and sometimes chemically treated before being flushed into a watercourse. A bit further downstream it is abstracted, filtered some more, disinfected and pumped back to you as drinking water.

It must be ecologically better to process your own.