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Anyone tried a kildwick compost loo?


Ayesha walker

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1 minute ago, adam1uk said:

If things get so wet that it's overflowing into another container, I'd suggest you've got big problems.  The whole idea is that it dries out.  Airheads etc help this along by separating the liquids and solids at source, the electric Sun Mars do it by heat.  Having neither separation nor heat is the worst of both worlds.  Avoiding urine getting in the solids tank is key to cutting odours, and making the resulting product easier to dispose of.

And the Non-Electric Sun-Mars still do this as well, the number of people it supports is reduced that's all and the overflow is for when it's used more than it should be.  If it does overflow then you have to empty a container - you have to do this on the separator toilets anyhow!   The Sun-Mar has the advantage in that you only empty compost every so often, with the NH you are still emptying the thing every other day.   The big disadvantage with the Sun-Mar is it's size n it's pretty ugly.   For me that is the real deal breaker, so I think I'll be sticking with my pump out as I only have to empty that every other month as well.

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12 hours ago, frangar said:

So from this topic we seem to have learned that providing you spend a few quid on the "holder" and possibly give it a trendy name it's quite acceptable to crap into a bag and chuck it in a bin....then blog about how green and hip you are.....oh what it is to live in such enlightened times. 

Or this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shit-Box-Portable-Cardboard-Toilet/dp/B00DYTYA9Q

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On ‎23‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 08:12, adam1uk said:

We've had our composting loo for 18 months, and I'm happy to tell anyone how much better it is than the pump out it replaced.

If composters are silent, it's probably because it's a waste of time arguing with people who've never tried one, yet are totally opposed.

Absolutely fair comment.

As previously stated, properly managed composting toilets are a totally valid option and enjoy my full patronage.

I'm strongly of the evidence/experience born opinion that it's an option that becomes deeply unattractive and intrusive for many obvious reasons when introduced to a space-restricted boat unless you have access to a) a shore-side compost heap that will accept your dubious excretions on trust or b) an Elsan where you can furtively dispose of your semi-rotted and flyblown stools unwitnessed.

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On 23/08/2017 at 08:12, adam1uk said:

We've had our composting loo for 18 months, and I'm happy to tell anyone how much better it is than the pump out it replaced.

If composters are silent, it's probably because it's a waste of time arguing with people who've never tried one, yet are totally opposed.

 

Why do you need to have shat in one, to understand the temptation to prematurely and inappropriately dispose of the shit?

While it is no big deal for the occasional boater to empty a bucket of raw shit into a CRT waste bin, if all boaters did this a major health and sanitation problem would soon develop, would it not?

Back in the day all shit was put into landfill was it not? The problems lead to the development of our current drainage and sewage management system. 'Composting' bogs are stepping us back 200 years in public sanitation. Thomas Crapper must be spinning in his grave.

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34 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Why do you need to have shat in one, to understand the temptation to prematurely and inappropriately dispose of the shit?

While it is no big deal for the occasional boater to empty a bucket of raw shit into a CRT waste bin, if all boaters did this a major health and sanitation problem would soon develop, would it not?

Back in the day all shit was put into landfill was it not? The problems lead to the development of our current drainage and sewage management system. 'Composting' bogs are stepping us back 200 years in public sanitation. Thomas Crapper must be spinning in his grave.

I'm not at all comfortable agreeing with you Mike. 

Your delightfully uncomplicated philosophy has me at a total loss as a general rule.

However on this issue at least we seem to have arrived at the same conclusion regardless of wildly opposing mind-sets. 

I find this strangely comforting, which sits uncomfortably.

:)

 

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2 hours ago, tomsk said:

I'm not at all comfortable agreeing with you Mike. 

Your delightfully uncomplicated philosophy has me at a total loss as a general rule.

However on this issue at least we seem to have arrived at the same conclusion regardless of wildly opposing mind-sets. 

I find this strangely comforting, which sits uncomfortably.

:)

 

I am thinking about getting one simply because I have become dissatisfied with my current pump-out macerator toilet.

Nothing on this or previous threads has been of much help to me - just folks disagreeing with each other without very much reasoned argument.

Can I ask for opinions on a slightly separate question (one that, hopefully, can be discussed without any assumptions about how the final "product" is disposed of).

How do you think the change to a composting toilet is likely to effect the future sale of a boat. Not the price (at most that could only be the cost of replacing it, (say £1,500)) but the degree of interest/speed of sale type of thing?

Frank

Edited by frahkn
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7 minutes ago, frahkn said:

I am thinking about getting one simply because I have become dissatisfied with my current pump-out macerator toilet.

Nothing on this or previous threads has been of much help to me - just folks disagreeing with each other without very much reasoned argument.

Can I ask for opinions on a slightly separate question (one that, hopefully, can be discussed without any assumptions about how the final "product" is disposed of).

How do you think the change to a composting toilet is likely to effect the future sale of a boat. Not the price (at most that could only be the cost of replacing it, (say £1,500) but the degree of interest/speed of sale type of thing?

Frank

The move to composting can be at very best neutral at resale, you are incurring grief best avoided and narrowing your market in one fell swoop.

Edited by tomsk
missed a bit
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10 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Back in the day all shit was put into landfill was it not? The problems lead to the development of our current drainage and sewage management system. 'Composting' bogs are stepping us back 200 years in public sanitation. Thomas Crapper must be spinning in his grave.

Not exactly!    Sewage systems and treatment works were introduced because people stopped composting their poo.

Pollution, public health concerns and the most vile and intolerable stench was as a result of the replacement of poo pits with flushing toilets.

In the days before flushing toilets, one had a 'pit' that one filled. A bit like a huge composting toilet in as much as the matter sat there, drying a bit and every few weeks the 'poo' man came round with his wheelbarrow and removed it for a small fee, before selling it on to local farms.

Distasteful to us but a welcomed form of income for the 'poo man'.

The problems with pollution only became extreme and the stench unbearable once flushing toilets became popular and the sewage was flushed, untreated, most notably into the Thames.

Sewage treatment etc followed, to mitigate the problems associated with the increasing use of water closets.

 

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Having watched several threads on composting loo groups on Facebook, what users of composting loos often fail to tell newbies is about the fly infestations, the difficulty getting the right mix from one month to the next to prevent smells, and that pouring urine in the canal is not allowed - oh, and the smell outside the boat at the fan outlet. Similarly, pouring it under bushes leaves a disgustingly fragrant gift after a few hours of sun on a hot day for the next person to moor nearby to enjoy. Also you have to have room in the bathroom to store the dry cover material and you have to buy the stuff.

And incidentally, in ideal conditions and with plenty of green matter, heat and stirring, composting takes a minimum of 3 months. It can take significantly longer (like 6 months to 2 years) for the bacteria and fungi to actually turn it into compost. People see dried out poop and think it's compost. It's not. 

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of composting waste in principle. But if you don't have your own plot of land to do it on, it's not the magic wand toilet solution some people make it out to be. 

Edited by BlueStringPudding
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10 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2017 at 08:12, adam1uk said:

We've had our composting loo for 18 months, and I'm happy to tell anyone how much better it is than the pump out it replaced.

If composters are silent, it's probably because it's a waste of time arguing with people who've never tried one, yet are totally opposed.

 

Why do you need to have shat in one, to understand the temptation to prematurely and inappropriately dispose of the shit?

Of course there is a percentage of people who break the rules and indulge in antisocial practices.

People like this who use composting loos will dump their dessicated toilet waste into the c&rt bins, and those who use cassette toilets, will empty their toilet cassette into the rivers and canals. 

Given that there are infinitely more cassette toilet users than 'composters', which, overall, has the greatest detrimental effect on the environment?

 

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11 minutes ago, BlueStringPudding said:

Having watched several threads on composting loo groups on Facebook, what users of composting loos often fail to tell newbies is about the fly infestations, the difficulty getting the right mix from one month to the next to prevent smells, and that pouring urine in the canal is not allowed - oh, and the smell outside the boat at the fan outlet. Similarly, pouring it under bushes leaves a disgustingly fragrant gift after a few hours of sun on a hot day for the next person to moor nearby to enjoy. Also you have to have room in the bathroom to store the dry cover material and you have to buy the stuff.

And incidentally, in ideal conditions and with plenty of green matter, heat and stirring, composting takes a minimum of 3 months. It can take significantly longer (like 6 months to 2 years) for the bacteria and fungi to actually turn it into compost. People see dried out poop and think it's compost.

Forgive me, but as a user of a composting toilet myself, it doesn't sound as if you are, for the following reasons:

I have never had a fly infestation: If a fly got past the outer vent grill, it would then have to negotiate a long duct and a considerable head wind!

Any odour cannot be detected at all in the bathroom, but a slight smell can be detected if you sniff the vent outlet, outside the boat; why would you though?

Mixing the 'poo' with sawdust or similar has no effect on smell levels, it simply helps with the drying, aeration and composting process.

In my experience, urine does not smell when poured onto the soil, but is absorbed and neutralised almost instantly. 

A compressed bale of pet bedding sawdust is very cheap to buy, is about 6"x4"x14" and lasts for about 3 months. It lives inside the outer toilet box with the bucket, so occupies zero boat space.

The in-use bucket stays in place for 2 months and then it's contents are composted in a shallow, lidded but ventilated container, on the roof outside for a further 4 months.

With the occasional addition of sawdust, peat, leaves etc and a stir now and then, what remains is completely odour free and crumbly.

11 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

We've had our composting loo for 18 months, and I'm happy to tell anyone how much better it is than the pump out it replaced.

If composters are silent, it's probably because it's a waste of time arguing with people who've never tried one, yet are totally opposed.

 

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20 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

So I'm right, you have no first hand experience of composting, you are simply trying to convince others not to try it.

I thought so.

Are you suggesting the things said on the face book page are fabrications?

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44 minutes ago, BlueStringPudding said:

If you've never heard of these things then you need to join the Facebook groups dedicated to composting loos where people are showing photos of fly infestations and are desperate to get rid of them.

If flies were a problem, and I have never found them to be so, I would just seal the bucket early, put it out on deck and start a new one. The dead flies might even enhance the compost.

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6 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

I have no idea, I can only write of my own 1st hand experience.

Not a bad approach I would suggest!

 

Not  a bad approach at all.  However to decry what others (albeit secondhand) are saying about their experience doesn't suggest a balanced view.

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I couldn't agree more, which is why I only talked about my experience, not that of others.

Having endured years of smells and blockages and breakdowns from my old flushing toilet, it is so nice to have discovered a system that just works without smells or fuss.

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1 hour ago, Bargebuilder said:

So I'm right, you have no first hand experience of composting, you are simply trying to convince others not to try it.

I thought so.

Doesn't to me at least suggest an unbiased view point.  To me it says in large letters "you don't agree with me, you have no experience so you are wrong".  It is possible to inform of other peoples experience without having had your own.   It is also possible to believe what others say even if your experience is different.

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13 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Doesn't to me at least suggest an unbiased view point.  To me it says in large letters "you don't agree with me, you have no experience so you are wrong".  It is possible to inform of other peoples experience without having had your own.   It is also possible to believe what others say even if your experience is different.

No, it's not.

If you do not believe something which you have genuinely experienced for yourself, but instead chose to believe something contrary to that experience, on the grounds that you have been told it is the case, you are sufficiently detached from reality to reasonably be described as insane.

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3 minutes ago, frahkn said:

If you do not believe something which you have genuinely experienced for yourself, but instead chose to believe something contrary to that experience, on the grounds that you have been told it is the case, you are sufficiently detached from reality to reasonably be described as insane.

That was so elequently put, I have just deleted my own reply.

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2 hours ago, BlueStringPudding said:

The waterways are well set up to cope with waste via porta potti, cassette toilet and various types of pump out loo. They're not set up to deal with bags of poo

I have been talking about genuine composting, but if you are concerned about dubious practice amongst some sectors of the boating community, this is the official local government line on the matter:

http://www.huntingdonshire.gov.uk/bins-waste/clinical-waste/

It is also interesting that, and I quote from a retailer of composting toilets called 'ecotoilets':

"The first batch of 12 Separett Villa toilets will shortly be delivered to them (houseboat owners) and this is just the start of what might become a tidal wave of ecotoilet installations along the river. (Thames)

We are now in discussion with the PLA (Port Of London Authority)  about offering our toilets to all such boaters in order to avoid prosecutions and to clean up the river."

Are the PLA or the Environment Agency concerned about where the composted toilet waste is buried in central London, or is it possible that they might have asked the houseboat owners to put the 'compost' into their waste bins because they are determined to clean up the tidal Thames?

 

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11 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

So I'm right, you have no first hand experience of composting, you are simply trying to convince others not to try it.

I thought so.

When I’m looking at a new product for something that I’ve not familiar with I research all reviews.  Usually the 5 stars and 1 stars are bollock reviews.  Everything has good a bad points and the bad point with these loos is that you either have to store for months in end (I already do in a large tank) or chuck relatively raw poo in the bin.  Also have to get rid of ma pee every on a regular basis as well!

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