Jump to content

Anyone tried a kildwick compost loo?


Ayesha walker

Featured Posts

A question - genuine one : 

Do Airhead , Seperette, Kildwick etc call thier toilets " composters "? 

My understanding is they call them " waterless toilets " , or " dessicating toilet " . 

Do they actually claim thier systems create compost . 

Personally, i think with a bit of forethought storing the toilet contents is feasable on a narrowboat & more so on a widebeam . 

That said i do believe that many owners will just bag it  , double bag it & bin it which i think is atrocious as at various points other people will be working in close proximity to it . I dont know how anyone could justify doing it . 

If you buy one you should think long & hard about the storage & disposal issues . 

Some , maybe many will claim it to be " greener " or more " environmentally friendly " . IMO the responsible & greener thing to do is use the sewerage system already established & let them deal with it .

To truly believe these toilets to be better then those who own them on thier boats must surely have them installed in thier home ( if they own one ) . If not , why not ? 

These " composters " are  good idea & used responsibly are worth installing but my fear is that many owner are not responsible & bagging it for landfill isnt good enuff 

cheers

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

I have read through the last couple of days crap and wonder how you lot all manage I have 2 bins of poo on the bank with composting powder in them my 3rd bin is in the loo this is my output from the last 7 months or so!

However I see the same people every couple of days carrying those heavy cassettes to the loo to empty them come back with a bad back and odour de liquid poo :giggles: Such hard work still if you all want to be stupid enough to like that system who am to stop you?

but most don't seem to do what you do, that is composting. How would you manage if you were a CCer so had nowhere for your bins?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

but most don't seem to do what you do, that is composting. How would you manage if you were a CCer so had nowhere for your bins?

You can get proper composting toilets that do actually compost!  The best one looks to be the Sun-Mar, don’t even have to empty your pee on this one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, chubby said:

A question - genuine one : 

Do Airhead , Seperette, Kildwick etc call thier toilets " composters "? 

My understanding is they call them " waterless toilets " , or " dessicating toilet " . 

Do they actually claim thier systems create compost .

Yes, maybe composting is the wrong term to describe it. Waterless and dessicating  are probably better in regards to boats. The composting is the next stage to the process usually done on land, but still feasible on a boat.

Personally, i think with a bit of forethought storing the toilet contents is feasable on a narrowboat & more so on a widebeam . 

Agreed

That said i do believe that many owners will just bag it  , double bag it & bin it which i think is atrocious as at various points other people will be working in close proximity to it . I dont know how anyone could justify doing it . 

But apparently that is what C&RT suggest. I really don't see a problem with bagged up dry dessicated waste. Its not going to be as bad as some of the other grotty stuff that goes into the bins. Even councils and waste management companies suggest you can either flush dog poo or bag it and put it in your domestic bin. It then either gets treated or goes to landfill, so what is the difference. I don't think we actually have people poking around in our rubbish on landfill sites any more.

If you buy one you should think long & hard about the storage & disposal issues . 

3 or 4 buckets don't take up much room. Must be plenty of places to dispose of it once it has composted down.

Some , maybe many will claim it to be " greener " or more " environmentally friendly " . IMO the responsible & greener thing to do is use the sewerage system already established & let them deal with it .

To truly believe these toilets to be better then those who own them on thier boats must surely have them installed in thier home ( if they own one ) . If not , why not ? 

They are not as convenient and easy to use as a home domestic toilet. Maybe if you were off grid or had a limited water supply or septic tank.  

These " composters " are  good idea & used responsibly are worth installing but my fear is that many owner are not responsible & bagging it for landfill isnt good enuff 

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

  How would you manage if you were a CCer so had nowhere for your bins?

 Why is there an assumption that anyone who CC's has no spare room on their boat. Plenty of CC'ers are single with decent sized boats.

 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is surprising what is actually legal and acceptable to the river authorities.

The journalist Steve Haywood from the publication Canal Boat and Tillergraph did some research directly with the Environment Agency and this is an extract from his article:

"Finally, I got confirmation that boats could empty their sea toilets on not just the Great Ouse, and the Medway, but on the tributaries of the Great Ouse and the river Nene as well. The answer to my suggestion of emptying my cassette over the side was circumspect. ‘The regulations don’t specify what sort of toilet is permissible, However, if a boater is discharging materials/chemicals that could potentially cause pollution and kill fish it would be an offence against the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act 1975, Section 4(1)."

It would appear that tipping Elsan Blue into these rivers is illegal, but emptying your untreated toilet cassette is quite acceptable to the very authorities that look after them!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, frahkn said:

I posted the following on a similar thread any no-one came back to argue with it.

I don’t follow this “huge volumes of shit” argument. I give you these figures and invite you to pull them apart.
If I give up a third of my forward hold I can fit a plastic kitchen bin measuring 34cm x 34cm x 100cm in it (I have one there at the moment).
This has an internal volume of say 100,000 cc.
The average volume of a persons stool is 130 cc per day (**). Add to this, a further 130 cc of coconut fibre (or whatever).
So even if there is no volume loss while in the toilet (unlikely given that there is a constant air draft and stool is 90% water) the total daily volume of “product’ will be  260 cc per person per day.
Therefore my kitchen bin can hold 380 days worth of product.
 
** Stool patterns of healthy adult males by Robert C Rendtorff Sc, D, M.D. and Mark Kashgarian M.D.  Tennessee College of Medicine.

 

I don't have a composting toilet but I am thinking of replacing my macerator pump-out with one next year. I would not do it unless I can truly compost the output and take it home to my garden compost bin (say) once a year.

Probably because your figures are just about right.

Since faeces are 85 to 90% water, the drying out process alone reduces the weight and volume dramatically and that is without the microbial decomposition.

20Kg of finished compost could be derived from up to 1/5 tonne of raw product: 2 people contributing 260cc per person per day (including sawdust) for 6 months.

I would point out though, that although achieving true, odour free, friable compost is very possible on a boat, the stored containers of maturing compost do need to be mixed occasionally and there is no possibility of using an airtight lid, because you don't want anaerobic decomposition. This means ventilation holes and so usually outside storage.

What is needed is a relatively shallow box with a lid, but also with some rain-proof ventilation that can be stored on ones narrow boat roof. Given how much 'stuff' is stored on nb roofs, including flowers in tubs and troughs, a well designed poo/compost storage box need not look out of place at all. Remembering that there need only ever be two of them for a three bucket rotation, and a box containing 20Kg of maturing compost need only measure 50cm X 40cm X 15cm high.

 

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

 

What is needed is a relatively shallow box with a lid, but also with some rain-proof ventilation that can be stored on ones narrow boat roof. Given how much 'stuff' is stored on nb roofs, including flowers in tubs and troughs, a well designed poo/compost storage box need not look out of place at all. Remembering that there need only ever be two of them for a three bucket rotation, and a box containing 20Kg of maturing compost need only measure 50cm X 40cm X 15cm high.

 

sound just like a box with solar panels on top.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

but most don't seem to do what you do, that is composting. How would you manage if you were a CCer so had nowhere for your bins?

I have a 12 foot widebeam with enough room in the engine room to store the bins, they arnt big and at the end when the composting is done I would as I have in the past dug a hole and buried the compost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From reading this thread it appears that a lot of plastic bags that do not break down are utilized for this process, is this a correct assumption or are the bags themselves emptied, and then what of the bags?

I am an uneducated by stander regarding the canals but would urine (urine only) not be better off placed in canals/rivers as it would break down relatively fast as opposed to being put in a handling and treatment system that is less ecofriendly.

From my experience in offshore sailing anything that decomposes is better off overboard than being stored and returned to land for processing, would this not be the case on inland waterways unless of course the output volume would overwhelm the balance of the canals/rivers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So from this topic we seem to have learned that providing you spend a few quid on the "holder" and possibly give it a trendy name it's quite acceptable to crap into a bag and chuck it in a bin....then blog about how green and hip you are.....oh what it is to live in such enlightened times. 

  • Greenie 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Going back to my comments earlier about dumping waste in bins .

My concern is that folk will dump uncomposted " solids" in the bin . Stuff thats been stored for many months and has broken down into a different state i d be ok with .

Almost every time i go to a bin store on the canal there ll be a sign to say " don t leave engine oil here " or similar . Underneath the sign there are often several large bottles of used engine oil & so no ones going to convince me that all boat owners will do tje right thing at all times and i very much expect bags of raw crap will be dumped however much the supporters of these toilets say otherwise. Folk are often lazy given half a chance - all the oil i see and ripped out bits of interior from a refit at bin stores makes me think this way.

Again - these toilets are a good idea . They can be used properly - storage could happen on the roof as suggested in roof boxes or beneath solar panels - is expect a wide and shallow container to be more efficient than a deep container with plenty of airholes or in the gas locker maybe as long as one is sensible , in the engine bay . Imagination is needed . My fear with such toilets is - as always not the toilet or the system but the users themselves and inexpect many are not as responsible as they ought to be . 

Personally , id like to have one but a £60 porta potty that costs between nowt & £1.50 to empty is a better solution .... for ME .... for the time being than an expensive composter / waterless / dessicater because if i bought one id only get a purpose built natures head type with a cranking handle to actual encourage the breakdown of the toilet contents &these are around £700 . 

No chance im paying that in the near future 

Edited by chubby
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, chubby said:

Going back to my comments earlier about dumping waste in bins .

My concern is that folk will dump uncomposted " solids" in the bin . Stuff thats been stored for many months and has broken down into a different state i d be ok with .

Almost every time i go to a bin store on the canal there ll be a sign to say " don t leave engine oil here " or similar . Underneath the sign there are often several large bottles of used engine oil & so no ones convince me that all boat owners will do tje right thing at all times and i very much expect bags of raw crap will be dumped however much the supporters of these toilets say otherwise. Folk are often lazy given half a chance - all the oil i see and ripped out bits of interior from a refit at bin stores makes me think this way.

Again - these toilets are a good idea . They can be used properly - storage could happen on the roof as suggested in roof boxes or beneath solar panels - is expect a wide and shallow container to be more efficient than a deep container with plenty of airholes or in the gas locker maybe as long as one is sensible , in the engine bay . Imagination is needed . My fear with such toilets is - as always not the toilet or the system but the users themselves and inexpect many are not as responsible as they ought to be . 

Personally , id like to have one but a £60 porta potty that costs between nowt & £1.50 to empty is a better solution .... for ME .... for the time being than an expensive composter / waterless / dessicater because if i bought one id only get a purpose built natures head type with a cranking handle to actual encourage the breakdown of the toilet contents &these are around £700 . 

No chance im paying that in the near future 

The nature’s head is still not a pure composting toilet and is classed as one of the cheap ones.  Take a look at the Sun Mar toilet for how a all in one composting toilet works.  This gives you compost output, no need for other containers stored elsewhere.

  • Angry 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Robbo said:

The nature’s head is still not a pure composting toilet and is classed as one of the cheap ones.  Take a look at the Sun Mar toilet for how a all in one composting toilet works.  This gives you compost output, no need for other containers stored elsewhere.

But the Sun Mar requires a heater, which will take a lot of power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed . The Sun Mar is a genuine composter & the Natures Head & Airhead are " Waterless " types .

I like the way though that they are a bit better than a " bucket " type and the process of breakdown can begin from day one and when the contents are transferred for storage the composting process, tho a long way from complete has at least started . The bucket types are just basically buckets of crap aren t they - no agitation, no aeration - no encouragement for the process to begin . 

There was a chap - Julynian - who had a sunmar . He no longer posts on CWDF which is a shame as I thought his contributions to these discussions and other threads were very good . He comes up as " ex member " when looking thru old threads . He spoke highly of the Sun Mar - i think it cost an arm & a leg tho . 

 

ETA : The sunmar do require a heater . Julynian was ok tho as he had a solar array on his widebeam roof that looked like a satellite had crash landed on it ! 

Edited by chubby
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, chubby said:

Agreed . The Sun Mar is a genuine composter & the Natures Head & Airhead are " Waterless " types .

I like the way though that they are a bit better than a " bucket " type and the process of breakdown can begin from day one and when the contents are transferred for storage the composting process, tho a long way from complete has at least started . The bucket types are just basically buckets of crap aren t they - no agitation, no aeration - no encouragement for the process to begin . 

There was a chap - Julynian - who had a sunmar . He long posts on CWDF which is a shame as I thought his contributions to these discussions and other threads were very good . He comes up as " ex member " when looking thru old threads . He spoke highly of the Sun Mar - i think it cost an arm & a leg tho . 

I believe the kildwick still has the turning things that the NH does tho (looking at the site).  Blackrose sent back a NH due to its cheap feeling build quality.  There’s a thread on it somewhere.

I may take a look at the Sun Mar more seriously, but it’s a big ugly thing and is around £1800, nearly double that of the NH but as you only have compost output and don’t have to empty the pee it looks ideal.

Edited by Robbo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Robbo said:

I believe the kildwick still has the turning things that the NH does tho (looking at the site).  Blackrose sent back a NH due to its build quality.  There’s a thread on it somewhere.

The new ones do . They appear to have taken the ideas that other folk worked out over many years and copied them . British entreprenurial spirit at its best . 

Id buy off the yanks who created it myself . My hard earnt wouldnt go to the copycats who still think £700 a fair price despite others having to all the R&R

ETA  : After a quick look on ebay i appear to have made an error . Theyre are infact £800 plus £20 delivery fee . 

Edited by chubby
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, chubby said:

The new ones do . They appear to have taken the ideas that other folk worked out over many years and copied them . British entreprenurial spirit at its best . 

Id buy off the yanks who created it myself . My hard earnt wouldnt go to the copycats who still think £700 a fair price despite others having to all the R&R

ETA  : After a quick look on ebay i appear to have made an error . Theyre are infact £800 plus £20 delivery fee . 

I don’t think natures head did actually create it, just the most popular one in America.  There’s quite a few of those types available in the US and I think the NH is a copy of the Air Head

Edited by Robbo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, adam1uk said:

But the Sun Mar requires a heater, which will take a lot of power.

Ahh but when the " cassette full " light comes on on your thetford or pumpout tank it squanders ten one billionths of a watt also!!

Edited by mrsmelly
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Robbo said:

No it doesn't.

Their website for the model suggested for boats says:

Quote

Evaporation is aided by a 110 volt, 120 Watt heater and thermostat. This heater is located in the sealed base compartment.

The thinking in designing a 110 volt heater into the unit was that a 12 Volt supply is often available while the unit is in motion, while the 110 volt heater can frequently be used while the vehicle is in an RV park, or, in the case of a vessel, hooked up to shore supply. There should be enough 12 Volt battery power to keep the 12 Volt 4.0 Watt fan running continuously, and it hooks up on a separate circuit to facilitate this.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, adam1uk said:

Their website for the model suggested for boats says:

 

Have you tried looking at the specs for the Non Electric model on the website?

The success of the Excel design meant that a three chamber unit could be specifically designed for those with NO continuous 110 volt supply. First launched in 1981, the Excel NE has long been the standard toilet for those living off the grid. A 1998 redesign gave the unit a rounded look, and recessed the drum handle.

The Excel NE has no fan or heater. Odorless operation is achieved by a 4" vent mounted at the top rear of the unit which acts like a chimney on a wood stove. For good air movement the vent should be installed vertically and to 2-3 feet above the peak of the roof.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Have you tried looking at the specs for the Non Electric model on the website?

I have -- and this bit (which I note you haven't quoted) made it look rather unsuitable for a boat:

Quote

Evaporating capacity on the Excel NE is variable, so the 1" drain at the rear should be connected to an approved drain pit, container, or other facility.

 

Edited by adam1uk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, adam1uk said:

I have -- and this bit (which I note you haven't quoted) made it look rather unsuitable for a boat:

 

Why?  You just need a suitable container (the boat version looks to also require one!) ?   I agree having the heater is better, it does reduce the capacity tho without one.  The boat version looks ideal as in that it has a separate 12v fan and the heater is ran when your on shore power/genny, etc.

Edited by Robbo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Why?  You just need a suitable container (the boat version looks to also require one!) ?   I agree having the heater is better, it does reduce the capacity tho without one.  The boat version looks ideal as in that it has a separate 12v fan and the heater is ran when your on shore power/genny, etc.

If things get so wet that it's overflowing into another container, I'd suggest you've got big problems.  The whole idea is that it dries out.  Airheads etc help this along by separating the liquids and solids at source, the electric Sun Mars do it by heat.  Having neither separation nor heat is the worst of both worlds.  Avoiding urine getting in the solids tank is key to cutting odours, and making the resulting product easier to dispose of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.