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urgent please : engine will not start & must move !


chubby

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Hello 

Im booked into a drydock for blacking and need to head off today . For the first time in 4 years of owning my boat it is not starting first time . 

Starter battery is charged: Deisel tank is full . 

Turn the key , buzzer sounds & engine sounds like it will start but will not spark into life . 

I really must get going otherwise i will miss my drydock booking in a few days time and forfeit the deposit and i really want to black my boat . 

Ive joined RCR but literally only last week and im afraid that a callout soon after joining will look suspect - even tho this is genuinely the first time its ever let me down . 

Any advice please ? ultimately i will call RCR if i must but will prefer not to .

Many thanks for any help 

cheers 

Edited by chubby
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If it turns over nicely then it's likely to be fuel related.  Apart from the obvious of checking if your tank has diesel, check fuel filters been blocked, etc.   Most engines have a method to bleed the the fuel by a manual level on the fuel pump with a "bleed screw" removed, this can be used to check if diesel is coming through.

In addition some modern engines require a relay to be energised so it may be a dodgy relay, so let us know your engine make/model as we should be able to confirm.

Edited by Robbo
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7 minutes ago, chubby said:

Hello 

Im booked into a drydock for blacking and need to head off today . For the first time in 4 years of owning my boat it is not starting first time . 

Starter battery is charged: Deisel tank is full . 

Turn the key , buzzer sounds & engine sounds like it will start but will not spark into life . 

I really must get going otherwise i will miss my drydock booking in a few days time and forfeit the deposit and i really want to black my boat . 

Ive joined RCR but literally only last week and im afraid that a callout soon after joining will look suspect - even tho this is genuinely the first time its ever let me down . 

Any advice please ? ultimately i will call RCR if i must but will prefer not to .

Many thanks for any help 

cheers 

RCR will assist you.

 

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If its a manual stop you have made sure its set to the run position!

If its an electric stop solenoid with linkage you have made sure it is not jammed in the stop position!

How much smoke from the exhaust when cranking - great clouds = unlikely to be fuel, possibly compression so try Esaystart but follow the instructions with care. A few whisps = probably fuel so try bleeding.

Both assuming it really is turning over fast enough.

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Thank you for the replies. I ' m grateful . I expect ive managed somehow to dislodge something " electrical " . I was tampering with the bilge pump a few days back as im trying to dry my engine bilge out and i suspect ive dislodged something. There is a " relay " (?) box with 30 a written on it connected to a thick ish wire but its just a dead end - it appears to connect to  nothing .

 

an  update . 

Engine has started with no " difficulty " . Turned the key - bang & it started up . Now however , when I press the stop button it will not stop !!! 

I called RCR - very embarrassing as i only re joined last week as im hoping to go cruising for a while after not be able to for yonks 

chees

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8 minutes ago, chubby said:

Engine has started with no " difficulty " . Turned the key - bang & it started up . Now however , when I press the stop button it will not stop !!! 

I called RCR - very embarrassing as i only re joined last week as im hoping to go cruising for a while after not be able to for yonks 

Sounds electrical / relay issue.  If you state the make/model of the engine someone here should be able to pinpoint the issue.

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21 minutes ago, chubby said:

Thank you for the replies. I ' m grateful . I expect ive managed somehow to dislodge something " electrical " . I was tampering with the bilge pump a few days back as im trying to dry my engine bilge out and i suspect ive dislodged something. There is a " relay " (?) box with 30 a written on it connected to a thick ish wire but its just a dead end - it appears to connect to  nothing .

 

an  update . 

Engine has started with no " difficulty " . Turned the key - bang & it started up . Now however , when I press the stop button it will not stop !!! 

I called RCR - very embarrassing as i only re joined last week as im hoping to go cruising for a while after not be able to for yonks 

chees

Disconnected wire from relay could be heater plugs. Fail to stop could be a disconnected "energise to stop" solenoid.

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fail to start and now fail to stop suggests the stop solenoid may be sticking.  You should be able to push the rod on the fuel pump to get it to stop. 

Can you post a few photos of top and sides of engine?

Edited by mross
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As someone who appreciates the subtlties of sarcasm im happy to be on the receiving end , i thank you . 

Ive had a call from an RCR chap and explained as best as my inept technological vocabulary will allow . The word " waggle " featured several times in my explanationand so i may well be halfway to becoming a professional.

Im certain its an electrical issue but thats a dark art and beyond my current abilities. Theres a relay , on the end of a thickish cable . I waggled it . Nothing more . It was one second of effort  - it made a clicking sound . The engine then started as smoothly as always . But now will not stop when i press the orange stop button . So , im in the dark as to whether my waggling is related to the engine now starting or failing to stop .

An RCR chap will turn up at some point today and probably take 5 mins to work out whats wrong and what needs replacing etc . 

Thanks again , for the sarcasm and he help

cheers

Just seen two more replies . Thankyou . Im unable to post a photo as i am hopeless with computers & apps etc - my apologies . I can stop the engine by hand as all my engine covers are off but will leave it running for the time being . Im reluctant to leave my mooring until its been fixed . Im hoping to go proper cruising for the first time in 2.5 years after studying that's recently finished and i want to enjoy it . Worrying about my engine will prevent my doing so and would prefer the peace of mind of knowing things are how they should be . 

Im sure that its the relay i  waggled thats the issue but in what way i dunno . Four and a half years ive owned this boat & it starts on tje turn of the key every time and now i NEED to move it lets me down ..... bloody Liverpool Boats ......

cheers

Edited by chubby
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On 21/08/2017 at 11:19, David Mack said:

Or keep going through the night until you get there!

 

That's an even better idea.

Stopping the engine again before getting there seems a daft idea, given how important it is to get there on time.

If sleeping is necessary, do it in the daytime!

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22 minutes ago, chubby said:

As someone who appreciates the subtlties of sarcasm im happy to be on the receiving end , i thank you . 

Ive had a call from an RCR chap and explained as best as my inept technological vocabulary will allow . The word " waggle " featured several times in my explanationand so i may well be halfway to becoming a professional.

Im certain its an electrical issue but thats a dark art and beyond my current abilities. Theres a relay , on the end of a thickish cable . I waggled it . Nothing more . It was one second of effort  - it made a clicking sound . The engine then started as smoothly as always . But now will not stop when i press the orange stop button . So , im in the dark as to whether my waggling is related to the engine now starting or failing to stop .

An RCR chap will turn up at some point today and probably take 5 mins to work out whats wrong and what needs replacing etc . 

Thanks again , for the sarcasm and he help

cheers

Just seen two more replies . Thankyou . Im unable to post a photo as i am hopeless with computers & apps etc - my apologies . I can stop the engine by hand as all my engine covers are off but will leave it running for the time being . Im reluctant to leave my mooring until its been fixed . Im hoping to go proper cruising for the first time in 2.5 years after studying that's recently finished and i want to enjoy it . Worrying about my engine will prevent my doing so and would prefer the peace of mind of knowing things are how they should be . 

Im sure that its the relay i  waggled thats the issue but in what way i dunno . Four and a half years ive owned this boat & it starts on tje turn of the key every time and now i NEED to move it lets me down ..... bloody Liverpool Boats ......

cheers

Ask questions and make notes whenever you have someone working on the engine. They can tell you the names and functions of the various bits and pieces as well as telling you the most common problems with your particular engine type. With this information you will be able to "waggle with confidence" should any issues arise in the future. 

  • Greenie 2
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4 hours ago, WotEver said:

Tape?

There's a clue right there :)

 

Agreed. Insulating tape is a surefire indication a bodger has been practicing his bodgery.  A competent electrician has no use for the hateful stuff. 

(Heatshrink sleeving is the stuff to use, if insulation needs to be added. )

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Finally moored up after getting going . Thankyou to all who have replied . 

There is a relay at the end of a cable and it seems to be a dead end . I realised when i waggled this relay it had an effect on the starting system . Following an initial waggle tje dead engine started at the next attempt . But it would not shut off . I shut the engine off manually . Being certain this relay was the cause ( tho i have no idea what it is , why its there or why its a dead end ) i unwound some insulation tape . It revealed 4 spade connectors and one was disconnected . I pushed the 4 spade connectors firmly to make the connections good . When i then turned the key it started straight away . When i pressed the orange stop button it stopped straight away . I repeated this 3 times after which i decided it was fixed and i felt confident to move on and  get cruising . When i eventually stopped the engine shut down as normal . I have replaced the existing insulation tape but will look into a better way of covering the relay terminals . Im very reluctant to touch electrics as inexperience can probably make a bad situation worse but i was certain this relay was the issue but didnt know in what way and thought checking the connections was within my abilities and as it turned out it was nothing more than a disconnected terminal and easily fixed . 

Thankyou again to all who helped - i am always grateful for your time & thoughts 

Cheers

  • Happy 1
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On 21/08/2017 at 21:33, chubby said:

Finally moored up after getting going . Thankyou to all who have replied . 

There is a relay at the end of a cable and it seems to be a dead end . I realised when i waggled this relay it had an effect on the starting system . Following an initial waggle tje dead engine started at the next attempt . But it would not shut off . I shut the engine off manually . Being certain this relay was the cause ( tho i have no idea what it is , why its there or why its a dead end ) i unwound some insulation tape . It revealed 4 spade connectors and one was disconnected . I pushed the 4 spade connectors firmly to make the connections good . When i then turned the key it started straight away . When i pressed the orange stop button it stopped straight away . I repeated this 3 times after which i decided it was fixed and i felt confident to move on and  get cruising . When i eventually stopped the engine shut down as normal . I have replaced the existing insulation tape but will look into a better way of covering the relay terminals . Im very reluctant to touch electrics as inexperience can probably make a bad situation worse but i was certain this relay was the issue but didnt know in what way and thought checking the connections was within my abilities and as it turned out it was nothing more than a disconnected terminal and easily fixed . 

Thankyou again to all who helped - i am always grateful for your time & thoughts 

Cheers

 

I'm curious about this bit. Why do you think they need insulating? They are only 12v. 

Rhetorical question. No need to reply unless you want to discuss your thinking.

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I'm with mru

13 hours ago, mross said:

fail to start and now fail to stop suggests the stop solenoid may be sticking.

I'm with mross on this one, it would appear that you have a stop solenoid that is not functioning properly.

You may have to press a button to stop your engine and all this does is to 'energise' a relay that cuts the fuel for as long as you maintain pressure on the button.

If your engine stops when you turn off the ignition, then the relay is held open, allowing fuel to pass, all the time the ignition is energised.

In either case, connections can come adrift or corrode with time and solenoids can stick open or closed.

A crimper and a selection of terminals is a really worthwhile and fairly cheap addition to a tool kit to get one out of trouble.

 

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7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'm curious about this bit. Why do you think they need insulating? They are only 12v. 

Rhetorical question. No need to reply unless you want to discuss your thinking.

Perhaps to secure the relay in place, or to keep moisture out?

Who knows what is in some people's minds when they bodge things.

 

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