What's the latest thinking on toilet tank treatments?

[DHutch]

I ticked 'other bio' as we used Thetfords own blue and toptank fluid typically, if as about half the recomende dose.

 

Daniel

[Jerra]

56 minutes ago, DHutch said:

I ticked 'other bio' as we used Thetfords own blue and toptank fluid typically, if as about half the recomende dose.

 

Daniel

When you say "Thetford's own blue" do you mean Thetford Aqua Chem?

If so I think it might need to be "other non bio", as far as I can find out it is based round Calcium Nitrate.  I am no chemist but from what I remember from my contact with agriculture it produces anaerobic conditions which inhibit bacteria and hence I think smells.

[Iain_S]

But, if I understand the goings on in a septic tank correctly, it's anaerobic bacteria which produce the pong, and aerobic ones which consume their byproducts, thus ridding the tank of pong.

[Jerra]

34 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

But, if I understand the goings on in a septic tank correctly, it's anaerobic bacteria which produce the pong, and aerobic ones which consume their byproducts, thus ridding the tank of pong.

Again not an area of expertise I claim to have but as I understand it a standard septic tank breaks down solids anaerobically and the aerobic breakdown is carried out in the liquid effluent once it has left the tank.   Unless of course it is a more modern system which has a method of aerating the fluids while in the tank.

Again only as I understand things a traditional anaerobic system only smells when there is a problem.  However the point I was really thinking was if there are chemicals involved rather than enzymes it isn't a bio system surely.

[Froggy]

7 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Again not an area of expertise I claim to have but as I understand it a standard septic tank breaks down solids anaerobically and the aerobic breakdown is carried out in the liquid effluent once it has left the tank.   Unless of course it is a more modern system which has a method of aerating the fluids while in the tank.

Again only as I understand things a traditional anaerobic system only smells when there is a problem.  However the point I was really thinking was if there are chemicals involved rather than enzymes it isn't a bio system surely.

Maybe i over-complicated the Poll by introducing these options.....

[Jerra]

Just now, Froggy said:

Maybe i over-complicated the Poll by introducing these options.....

Personally I am finding it fascinating.  Having read much discussion over the years of what to add I am surprised so few have said other.

[DHutch]

1 hour ago, Jerra said:

When you say "Thetford's own blue" do you mean Thetford Aqua Chem?

If so I think it might need to be "other non bio", as far as I can find out it is based round Calcium Nitrate.  I am no chemist but from what I remember from my contact with agriculture it produces anaerobic conditions which inhibit bacteria and hence I think smells.

Yeah, Aqua Kem blue, and you may be right on the chemistry. Although we have also used the Aqua Kem Green which appears to be non-bio.

Daniel

[Jerra]

3 minutes ago, DHutch said:

Yeah, Aqua Kem blue, and you may be right on the chemistry. Although we have also used the Aqua Kem Green which appears to be non-bio.

Daniel

Thetford say about Aqua Ken Green:

An environmentally conscious and easy to use toilet fluid with biological action for the waste holding tank.

[DHutch]

Sorry, I mean bio, gahhhhh. But it doesn't say about the blue.

15 hours ago, Jerra said:

Thetford say about Aqua Ken Green:

An environmentally conscious and easy to use toilet fluid with biological action for the waste holding tank.

 

Daniel

[rustydiver]

Our macerator toilet started to smell a bit. It smelt like fermenting wee. Found out it was the pipes going to the holding tank, replaced them cleaned the macerator pump all ok now but we do sometimes get a whiff from the vent when we flush off rotten sprouts. When we use the boat for the week it's not to bad as we are flushing and venting it, it's when we only go of a weekend and not Beeb flushed all week. I've tried odourless but don't think it's as good now as it used to be. I was advised rubberpiped should be replaced every 5 years or so as the smell starts to permeate through the rubber.   

[ditchcrawler]

8 hours ago, rustydiver said:

Our macerator toilet started to smell a bit. It smelt like fermenting wee. Found out it was the pipes going to the holding tank, replaced them cleaned the macerator pump all ok now but we do sometimes get a whiff from the vent when we flush off rotten sprouts. When we use the boat for the week it's not to bad as we are flushing and venting it, it's when we only go of a weekend and not Beeb flushed all week. I've tried odourless but don't think it's as good now as it used to be. I was advised rubberpiped should be replaced every 5 years or so as the smell starts to permeate through the rubber.   

I have posted the link before from Biggles's blog about flexi pipes and sewage. Why worry about a slights wiff from the vent when someone uses the loo so long as its outside.

[Froggy]

Well as i type there are an equal amount of people who have answered the poll using Odorlos, despite all the criticism of the product, and an equal amount putting nothing into the tank. I suspect from the discussion though that many of the latter have macerator loos, which we don't. Enough people seem to be using washing machine detergent to motivate me to try it, along with the OxyGen granules that somebody else suggested. I'll give them a go and report back. I can't help but think that bio products should in principle work better than non-bio products such as Elsan (which seems to just mask the smell (badly) with a pretty perfume), even though the Odorlos was a disappointment for us, and the poll does suggest that the majority are using a bio product of one form or another.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Froggy

[Tony Brooks]

FWIW. I ticked "Other proprietary bio product".

I too found Odourlos and Biomagic seemed to become less effective a few years ago. I now use a product many would think was Elsan blue i its not, its a bio product. Its the tank treatment from the New Blue Loo Company and it has Elsan type perfume added. It seem a little more effective than modern Odourlos but it could not cope with the very hot weather in June. Its been fine since then. The only retail outlet I have found is Calcutt but the company do online sales.

[Froggy]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

FWIW. I ticked "Other proprietary bio product".

I too found Odourlos and Biomagic seemed to become less effective a few years ago. I now use a product many would think was Elsan blue i its not, its a bio product. Its the tank treatment from the New Blue Loo Company and it has Elsan type perfume added. It seem a little more effective than modern Odourlos but it could not cope with the very hot weather in June. Its been fine since then. The only retail outlet I have found is Calcutt but the company do online sales.

Thanks, i might give this a go sometime, but am going to experiment with supermarket products first. My guess is that most/all proprietary brands (viz. products aimed specifically at marine users - perhaps i should have made this clear in the poll!) are based on similar principles to supermarket products but with a higher price tag.

A number of people have commented how Odorlos (and in one earlier thread even Elsan Blue if i remember correctly) have become less effective over time. Is this something to do with EU regulations, and if so which ingredient(s) have been removed?

[OldGoat]

5 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Thanks, i might give this a go sometime, but am going to experiment with supermarket products first. My guess is that most/all proprietary brands (viz. products aimed specifically at marine users - perhaps i should have made this clear in the poll!) are based on similar principles to supermarket products but with a higher price tag.

A number of people have commented how Odorlos (and in one earlier thread even Elsan Blue if i remember correctly) have become less effective over time. Is this something to do with EU regulations, and if so which ingredient(s) have been removed?

We usually buy a stock from MC in Braunston (not living near any affordable chandlers) and at the time of the change they said that the mix had been modified - but as the formula was kept 'secret' they couldn't say precisely what the difference was. The original mix was imported from the States who sometime have a more relaxed attitude to formulations than we in Europe do.

[Tony Brooks]

48 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Thanks, i might give this a go sometime, but am going to experiment with supermarket products first. My guess is that most/all proprietary brands (viz. products aimed specifically at marine users - perhaps i should have made this clear in the poll!) are based on similar principles to supermarket products but with a higher price tag.

A number of people have commented how Odorlos (and in one earlier thread even Elsan Blue if i remember correctly) have become less effective over time. Is this something to do with EU regulations, and if so which ingredient(s) have been removed?

From what I can gather the product I linked to originated in the portable toilet hire industry.

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

From what I can gather the product I linked to originated in the portable toilet hire industry.

Hmmm, being a veteran of many music festivals i'm not too sure it's 100% effective! 

[Froggy]

As an aside, although I appreciate it could upset the bacteria balance with bio holding tank treatments, I assume it's otherwise safe to use supermarket bowl cleaners such as Toilet Duck? If not, what do people recommend? Can such products harm the rubber seals etc?

Edited August 28, 2017 by Froggy

[monkeyhanger]

On 8/28/2017 at 10:52, Froggy said:

As an aside, although I appreciate it could upset the bacteria balance with bio holding tank treatments, I assume it's otherwise safe to use supermarket bowl cleaners such as Toilet Duck? If not, what do people recommend? Can such products harm the rubber seals etc?

Went back to our boat for the weekend after our son and his mates had used it for 3 weeks. I have to say, the toilet was a bit "whiffy". Having read this post I had prepared myself with a visit to Tesco and bought a bottle of their cheap bio derergent and a tub of the "oxy" stuff. After a dose of both in the tank, it took 36 hours to make it totally non-smelly. So that worked well. However, before we left the boat , my wife gave the toilet a good clean with spray bathroom cleaner. I suspect that this may contain bleach, which may counteract the effect that the bio and oxy had. We'll have to wait and see. I'll try to report back after my next visit ( to the boat, not the toilet!)

Edited August 29, 2017 by monkeyhanger
missing letter

[BruceinSanity]

On 28/08/2017 at 10:52, Froggy said:

As an aside, although I appreciate it could upset the bacteria balance with bio holding tank treatments, I assume it's otherwise safe to use supermarket bowl cleaners such as Toilet Duck? If not, what do people recommend? Can such products harm the rubber seals etc?

 

29 minutes ago, monkeyhanger said:

Went back to our boat for the weekend after our son and his mates had used it for 3 weeks. I have to say, the toilet was a bit "whiffy". Having read this post I had prepared myself with a visit to Tesco and bought a bottle of their cheap bio derergent and a tub of the "oxy" stuff. After a dose of both in the tank, it took 36 hours to make it totally non-smelly. So that worked well. However, before we left the boat , my wife gave the toilet a good clean with spray bathroom cleaner. I suspect that this may contain bleach, which may counteract the effect that the bio and oxy had. We'll have to wait and see. I'll try to report back after my next visit ( to the boat, not the toilet!)

It's a bad idea to use non-bio domestic cleaning agents in a boat toilet. They will certainly kill off your carefully nurtured bug colony in the tank and may well attack the seals into the bargain. Jabsco do a safe toilet cleaner or I guess you can use the environmentallly friendly cleaners that only use natural ingredients.

[JamesFrance]

Thetford sell a silicone spray for the seals of their toilets, but for years of semi residential motorhoming I used a little olive oil which they used to recommend.   That should be safe for any type of seals and I currently use it in my sail boat marine toilet after dissolving calcium deposits with vinegar.

[Froggy]

Thanks for the continued feedback. One boatyard reckoned Toilet Duck would be ok since it was water based, but I'll see what bio alternatives are available in the supermarket.

[ditchcrawler]

On 30/08/2017 at 11:57, Froggy said:

Thanks for the continued feedback. One boatyard reckoned Toilet Duck would be ok since it was water based, but I'll see what bio alternatives are available in the supermarket.

Read what the contents are, they should be printed on the container.  From Wiki

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_Duck#Ingredients

Edited September 2, 2017 by ditchcrawler

[ditchcrawler]

We have just had our second pump out since using some Bio washing stuff I bought in a cheap O shop in Elesmere and even looking in the tank and pouring a bucket of water in to flush the tank there was no smell. There was no smell where the chap was doing the pump out and none by the pump unit. The tank also pumped out cleaner with no visible solid residue. I have used many things in the past but this seems the best. We have never had a smell problem in the toilet other than when holding the ball open to clean the seal, but even that is better with the washing liquid. The stuff we are using is "Easy 3 in 1 Liquid Laundry " bio action ; Brightens ; east iron and it must be OK for toilets as its made by Jeyes  and my gran use to put Jeyes Fluid in the outside privy when I was a kid. http://www.jeyes.com/en-gb/our-products/easy/

[Señor Chris]

I get rid of used ground coffee in the pump-out tank. It is known to be good for compost heaps due to being rich in nitrogen which helps the bacteria do their job, after you've done yours.