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What features drives boat prices


Mick in Bangkok

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Proper boats with brass portholes and nice big engines are just not that popular, though I personally find this very hard to comprehend. I did a little informal survey last week whilst cruising along a popular canal, and proper boats make up less than 1/2% of the boat population. 

The result is that proper boats can sometimes be a bargain, especially 70 footers. They can make excellent liveaboards. Its a little elderly so a good survey is vital. If your insurance company wants a survey every 5 years then thats no problem at all, it would be quite nice to keep an eye on the boats condition. You will be taking the boat out of the water at least once every five years anyway, so getting a basic hull only survey at the same time will not cost a fortune. You will be spending about £5000 per year on the boat  (fixed costs plus maintenance) so the survey won't add that much.

.............Dave

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6 minutes ago, dmr said:

Proper boats with brass portholes and nice big engines are just not that popular, though I personally find this very hard to comprehend. I did a little informal survey last week whilst cruising along a popular canal, and proper boats make up less than 1/2% of the boat population. 

The result is that proper boats can sometimes be a bargain, especially 70 footers. They can make excellent liveaboards. Its a little elderly so a good survey is vital. If your insurance company wants a survey every 5 years then thats no problem at all, it would be quite nice to keep an eye on the boats condition. You will be taking the boat out of the water at least once every five years anyway, so getting a basic hull only survey at the same time will not cost a fortune. You will be spending about £5000 per year on the boat  (fixed costs plus maintenance) so the survey won't add that much.

.............Dave

I think that about sums it up and a realistic cost rather than the usual bunkum of a cheap way to live. I think also the reason that " Old fashioned " boats are getting less popular is that more and more people now do buy to live aboard and the old fashioned stuff with a virtualy scrap engine like that are less appealing as liveaboards but well loved by hobbiests. My bro in law has for years owned hobby boats with engines rooms etc his present one has an old lister with its usual drawbacks ( air cooled ) he has now lived aboard full time for just two years but is now looking for a modern purpose built liveaboard funnily enough much like mine. The boat subject of this thread is lovely and could be made tolerable as a liveaboard if the scrap engine was removed and replaced with something " Proper " like maybe a JD3.

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39 minutes ago, dmr said:

Proper boats with brass portholes and nice big engines are just not that popular, though I personally find this very hard to comprehend. I did a little informal survey last week whilst cruising along a popular canal, and proper boats make up less than 1/2% of the boat population. 

The result is that proper boats can sometimes be a bargain, especially 70 footers. They can make excellent liveaboards. Its a little elderly so a good survey is vital. If your insurance company wants a survey every 5 years then thats no problem at all, it would be quite nice to keep an eye on the boats condition. You will be taking the boat out of the water at least once every five years anyway, so getting a basic hull only survey at the same time will not cost a fortune. You will be spending about £5000 per year on the boat  (fixed costs plus maintenance) so the survey won't add that much.

.............Dave

What is a proper boat?  With a old “working” narrowboat, unless you wish to give the majority of your boat for the transporting of goods and you live in the back cabin then is it a “proper boat”, as the majority of the boat is fake.  Proper boats could be classed as from the 1960’s onwards as these were actually designed with leisure in mind and in my eyes have the best looking styles.

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13 minutes ago, Robbo said:

What is a proper boat?  With a old “working” narrowboat, unless you wish to give the majority of your boat for the transporting of goods and you live in the back cabin then is it a “proper boat”, as the majority of the boat is fake.  Proper boats could be classed as from the 1960’s onwards as these were actually designed with leisure in mind and in my eyes have the best looking styles.

Yes quite true. There are loads of so called " Proper " boats around and they approach with the clunk clunk bang of the scrap engine and all shiney brass etc and open engine room doors with shiney engines and pretty cabins at the back end......................with washing machine, tumble dryer and dishwasher situated in the super modern front end with the 40 inch tv :lol: soooooooooo Traditional.

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Mr Smelly is getting it almost right here. After much thought over the last 8 years I think I have finally got this liveaboard thing sussed. The simple answer is that a man (or suitable woman) actually needs two boats. A main liveaboard residence, obviously 70 foot, with a reliable engine. The JD3 in a proper engine room is indeed a good compromise here. The second boat is similar, but only 57 foot to gain access to the Northern system, and will also have an engine room but this time with a proper vintage "scrap" engine.  Washing machines, fridges, and other labour saving devices are essential, but the 40 inch TV is not required. With two boats to maintain there will be no time to waste watching the tele.

...............Dave

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By scrap engine do you mean vintage engine, would such an engine not be suitable for live aboard and continues cruising?

As I would be retired while living on board I would have time and limited mechanical experience to dedicate and prefer the idea of an old vintage lump but also need to factor in practicalities as well.

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1 minute ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

By scrap engine do you mean vintage engine, would such an engine not be suitable for live aboard and continues cruising?

As I would be retired while living on board I would have time and limited mechanical experience to dedicate and prefer the idea of an old vintage lump but also need to factor in practicalities as well.

I was light heartedly replying to a previous post when I said "scrap". Its actually pretty unusually for a vintage engine to become scrap. I do observe that the vast majority of liveaboard boaters who have a vintage engine also have a generator of sort kind, possibly even a proper built in generator. Then again a lot of liveaboards with modern engines also have a generator. I know a couple of boaters who found a boat that they liked and accepted the engine, but in general I think you should only get a vintage engine if you really like vintage engines and have at least some mechanical intuition, sort of stating the obvious really :D

...............Dave

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7 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

By scrap engine do you mean vintage engine, would such an engine not be suitable for live aboard and continues cruising?

As I would be retired while living on board I would have time and limited mechanical experience to dedicate and prefer the idea of an old vintage lump but also need to factor in practicalities as well.

Yes Mick. As many on the forum know we do have banter and take the pee out of each other a fair bit. I wouldn't have an old engine for all the tea in china, my first boat id have one however. Yes they sound great to some but not to me and these old engine lovers probably drive new BMWs but wouldn't want a 1930s car engine in their daily drive. As a long term liveaboard I love my very smooth very quiet Japanese engine that gives masses of boiling water and at the flick of a switch gives me 3.5 w of mains power etc and very very cheap and easy to maintain. Each to their own but banter will and must prevail :D

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Ok, thanks for the clarification. I have tinkered with motorcycles and outboard engines most of my life and do like vintage boats, bikes and engines etc. My wish to live aboard is to enjoy the experience not as a cheaper living option, a vintage lump in a narrow boat would for me be like a hobby within a hobby, however budget and practically  would certainly also be a factors.

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1 minute ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I have tinkered with motorcycles and outboard engines most of my life and do like vintage boats, bikes and engines etc. My wish to live aboard is to enjoy the experience not as a cheaper living option, a vintage lump in a narrow boat would for me be like a hobby within a hobby, however budget and practically  would certainly also be a factors.

It will depend on exactly which vintage engine you pick to a great extent, there are vintage engines and vintage engines. For instance my bro in law has a biggish air cooled 3 pot lister which vibrates a lot more than a modern engine also it gives no hot water and its more difficult to charge batteries whilst stationary due to engine revs and noise he loves it but I know he will soon be swopping boats as he is now living aboard. Others such as gardners are more up to date and some don't take huge amounts of looking after but all are less easy than a modern peice of kit hence such as the incarnation the JD3

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2 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

I think that about sums it up and a realistic cost rather than the usual bunkum of a cheap way to live. I think also the reason that " Old fashioned " boats are getting less popular is that more and more people now do buy to live aboard and the old fashioned stuff with a virtualy scrap engine like that are less appealing as liveaboards but well loved by hobbiests. My bro in law has for years owned hobby boats with engines rooms etc his present one has an old lister with its usual drawbacks ( air cooled ) he has now lived aboard full time for just two years but is now looking for a modern purpose built liveaboard funnily enough much like mine. The boat subject of this thread is lovely and could be made tolerable as a liveaboard if the scrap engine was removed and replaced with something " Proper " like maybe a JD3.

Should you become Fed up with the "Scrap Engine",it could always be sold to Mike the Boilerman(he collects them):D

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32 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

Should you become Fed up with the "Scrap Engine",it could always be sold to Mike the Boilerman(he collects them):D

Only because they are so unreliable he needs a few to ensure at least one is working at any one time :P

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44 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

Should you become Fed up with the "Scrap Engine",it could always be sold to Mike the Boilerman(he collects them):D

And if it wasn't scrap already, it's not been unknown for him to make them go that way!......

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4 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

As a long term liveaboard I love my very smooth very quiet Japanese engine that gives masses of boiling water and at the flick of a switch gives me 3.5 w of mains power etc and very very cheap and easy to maintain. Each to their own but banter will and must prevail

Boiling water and 3.5w.What is this engine that you speaketh of:)

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4 hours ago, dmr said:

Mr Smelly is getting it almost right here. After much thought over the last 8 years I think I have finally got this liveaboard thing sussed. The simple answer is that a man (or suitable woman) actually needs two boats. A main liveaboard residence, obviously 70 foot, with a reliable engine. The JD3 in a proper engine room is indeed a good compromise here. The second boat is similar, but only 57 foot to gain access to the Northern system, and will also have an engine room but this time with a proper vintage "scrap" engine.  Washing machines, fridges, and other labour saving devices are essential, but the 40 inch TV is not required. With two boats to maintain there will be no time to waste watching the tele.

...............Dave

I have come to pretty much the same conclusion.

We would have a long boat but for the fact that the Northern canals are pretty much out of bounds to anything over 62 feet, and 57 if you want access to everything. Being from the North there's no way I would buy a boat that couldn't fully navigate the system but I couldn't live full time on a 57 footer, so two boats it has to be.  It actually makes financial sense as well as boats over 62 feet and below 40 feet is where you get best value for money these days, hang on did I just say it makes financial sense..

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I remember going to view a forty foot tug a few years ago. After a lot of dribbling over the JP2 and the back cabin I said no. It sold a few days later. When I explained to the broker he said it was refreshing to hear my reasons. He stated most buyers wanted to know how long the mains lead was and whether it had a TV or not.

personaly it's builder length, engine, and then everything else, depending on my needs at the time. In the past it's been 70 ft yarwoods  hb3  luxury and mooring .Currently it's  short woolwich  hb2 short  extension and basic. Plus land base that I've never spent a night in!

 

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I think that traditional engines with their polished brass and copper are wonderful to look at, and that the puffs of exhaust and that deep 'thump' 'thump' sound is also great. High torque low revving engines with huge propellers are great, but spending 6 or 7 hours a day just a few feet behind that vertical exhaust pipe just can't be good for you.

Modern car engines have legal limits for gasses and particulates with exhaust gas recycling etc, and although the exhaust they produce to the naked eye is absolutely clear, 'they' still want to ban modern diesel cars because of health concerns.

Not all perhaps, but with most of these vintage engines you can see and smell the pollution and I'll bet that they produce many times the particulates of modern engines that in cars are soon to be phased out.

It can be uncomfortable traveling several hundred yards behind a vintage engine in a tunnel because of the fumes and hazy visibility, so don't you guys worry about the lining of your lungs?

 

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17 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

I think that traditional engines with their polished brass and copper are wonderful to look at, and that the puffs of exhaust and that deep 'thump' 'thump' sound is also great. High torque low revving engines with huge propellers are great, but spending 6 or 7 hours a day just a few feet behind that vertical exhaust pipe just can't be good for you.

Modern car engines have legal limits for gasses and particulates with exhaust gas recycling etc, and although the exhaust they produce to the naked eye is absolutely clear, 'they' still want to ban modern diesel cars because of health concerns.

Not all perhaps, but with most of these vintage engines you can see and smell the pollution and I'll bet that they produce many times the particulates of modern engines that in cars are soon to be phased out.

It can be uncomfortable traveling several hundred yards behind a vintage engine in a tunnel because of the fumes and hazy visibility, so don't you guys worry about the lining of your lungs?

 

Yes I do worry but.....

With a roof mounted exhaust chimney most of the exhaust goes harmlessly skyward, standing on the back of a modern boat, or next to one, with the exhaust just behind me, wafting up past my face, is more concerning. As for following a boat through a tunnel, some of the smokiest boats i've ever seen have had the engines under the back deck, though I accept they are probably old engines.

Have spent the last few days on a boat with a Kelvin K2 and, except when accelerating hard, it has an exhaust cleaner than many modern engines.

.............Dave

 

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