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What features drives boat prices


Mick in Bangkok

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Hi again,

 I am not yet actually looking to buy, this will be in the next couple of years but would like some experienced opinions on why the boat in this advert seems so reasonably priced compared to others in the same length range as I am trying to get a feel for boat prices and what commands a higher price and what may be obtained at a more reasonable budget.

 https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=532378

This boat ready to live aboard, with authentic brass portholes and a vintage engine would appear to me to be to be a very good choice. Are the older more vintage boats better priced or am I missing something here?

 Cheers Mick

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Its certainly a lot of boat by a well respected builder. The age and length may not appeal to everyone. It doesn't mention plate thickness, so possibly not 10mm baseplate. 

70FT boats are great for living on, cost more in moorings /licensing /maintenance, and can be difficult if single handed, especially in the wind. You are also not able to navigate the whole canal network. 

Eta Brochure suggests 10mm baseplate, polystyrene insulation. 

Edited by rusty69
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If you're comparing this boat with other 70 footers there are two factors affecting the price.  First, anything 30 years old, or coming up to that, is entering the territory where insurance starts becoming less straightforward, though there is at least one company that doesn't discriminate until the boat gets to 40.  Second, the engine, especially if it is hand start only, puts it in a limited market.   I know a couple that have an immaculate 65 foot trad with a beautiful old Dorman engine - it certainly isn't overpriced in my opinion but they have had a I think 2 or 3 enquiries in six months. 

 

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1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

Its certainly a lot of boat by a well respected builder. The age and length may not appeal to everyone. It doesn't mention plate thickness, so possibly not 10mm baseplate. 

70FT boats are great for living on, cost more in moorings /licensing /maintenance, and can be difficult if single handed, especially in the wind. You are also not able to navigate the whole canal network. 

Eta Brochure suggests 10mm baseplate, polystyrene insulation. 

Can I ask what complications would be faced, simply paying more or not being able to obtain insurance?

48 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

First, anything 30 years old, or coming up to that, is entering the territory where insurance starts becoming less straightforward, though there is at least one company that doesn't discriminate until the boat gets to 40.

Can I ask what complications would be faced, simply paying more or not being able to obtain insurance?

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Interesting that the advert claims it to be a 1989 boat, but the registration number quoted (45207) is issued in the 1988 'block'.

1989 numbers started at 45506

 

Just now, Mick in Bangkok said:

Can I ask what complications would be faced, simply paying more or not being able to obtain insurance?

The only complication to paying more is - you pay more premium. If for any reason you cannot obtain 'fully comprehensive' insurance, then you can always get 3rd party insurance (but obviously the boat itself, or cotents is not covered) You cannot obtain a licence without at least 3rd party insurance.

Whatever the problem is stopping you getting 'full comp' insurance (normally its the surveyor suggests the bottom is rotten and it is going to sink) can be overcome with huge financial expenditure (maybe £15000+ to overplate the hull)

The Insurers will demand a full survey every 3, or 4, or 5 years (depending on company) to ensure it is not a 'bad risk'.

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I have my 1983 Mike Heywood (6/6/4 construction) surveyed for insurance. The latest one was a few months ago which it passed with ease...no overplating....I'm insured with GJW and they don't want another survey for 10 years...which was surprising. However I guess they can always change their mind. 

Im not alone in thinking some older boats used better steel than what's being produced now. 

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24 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The Insurers will demand a full survey every 3, or 4, or 5 years (depending on company) to ensure it is not a 'bad risk'.

I've not encountered any insurer needing them that regularly.

The ones we have used, or could potentially use, for our two boats (each 81 years old), state every 6 years.
 

For "newer" boats like this one some insurers claim they will not continue to ask for them, provided yoiu supply one giving a clean bill of health, (which has always sounded somewhat illogical to me, I will admit!)

Edited by alan_fincher
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20 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Whatever the problem is stopping you getting 'full comp' insurance (normally its the surveyor suggests the bottom is rotten and it is going to sink) can be overcome with huge financial expenditure (maybe £15000+ to overplate the hull)

The Insurers will demand a full survey every 3, or 4, or 5 years (depending on company) to ensure it is not a 'bad risk'.

The survey we just had suggested 6 years between surveys and 8 to10 k for overplating, but only one mans estimate 

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36 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

This for me is good news as a vintage engine even with hand crank would be a big plus.

It's only a "big plus" if you can manage it consistently, without damaging yourself.

Hand starting a JP2 is not for everybody!

We looked at a boat with a hand start only engine, (a National).  The owner had previously had a stroke, and was advised they should not be trying it.

Conversion of old engines from hand to electric start can in some cases be eye wateringly expensive.

You may like it, but it will put a lot of people off if you need to sell it one day.

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2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

The survey we just had suggested 6 years between surveys and 8 to10 k for overplating, but only one mans estimate 

£8-£10k for a 70 foot boat ?

I have seen quotes for £15k for 60 footers , but I guess it depends on what work is involved on the particular boat.

 

OK - it looks as if the 6-year survey renewal is the predominant one.

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13 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

It's only a "big plus" if you can manage it consistently, without damaging yourself.

Hand starting a JP2 is not for everybody!

We looked at a boat with a hand start only engine, (a National).  The owner had previously had a stroke, and was advised they should not be trying it.

Conversion of old engines from hand to electric start can in some cases be eye wateringly expensive.

You may like it, but it will put a lot of people off if you need to sell it one day.

If the JP is in decent nick and running on the right oil they aren't tricky to start by hand....a lot easier than the air cooled range I think mainly due to a bigger flywheel. Like any engine if they are poorly then it's much harder. 

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Probably this 

https://www.insure4boats.co.uk/?ref=ppcgi4b247&gclid=CMPnx5fy7NMCFdXNGwodWOEOag&gclsrc=aw.ds

6 minutes ago, Rickent said:

I am with Craft insure.

I always thought craft insure was 30 years, that's why I stopped going with them 

 

From Website (narrowboat) 

If over 30 years old, the boat has had a full out of the water condition survey, carried out within the last 5 years by a qualified yacht surveyor, and all recommendations have been complied with.

Edited by rusty69
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18 minutes ago, Rickent said:

I am with Craft insure.

 

17 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Probably this 

https://www.insure4boats.co.uk/?ref=ppcgi4b247&gclid=CMPnx5fy7NMCFdXNGwodWOEOag&gclsrc=aw.ds

I always thought craft insure was 30 years, that's why I stopped going with them 

I am with CraftInsure and it is quoting 30 years on my policy (Narrowboat) but only 20 years on the 'Cruiser'.

 Warranties applicable to “Sea Wolf”: 
•  Construction is of fibreglass or steel. • Speed will not exceed 20kts. and the boat will not be used for any official race or speed trial.

•  If “Sea Wolf” is over 20 years old, and more than 23ft in length, you have in your possession a full condition survey of the vessel, carried out whilst ashore and completed within the last five years by a qualified yacht surveyor, with all recommendations complied with.

• “Sea Wolf” does not exceed 50ft in length.

•  The permanent home mooring of “Sea Wolf” is in the United Kingdom.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Nice boat, nice price. If structurally sound, which I've no reason to think it may not be, than i expect it'll sell fairly quickly.

For me, the reason this isn't advertised at £49995 is hand start JP2, dated interior and polystyrene insulation. None of those would put me off buying at that price, but imo are reflected in the asking price.

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10 minutes ago, Rickent said:

Just had a look at policy agreements and Rusty and Alan are correct it is 30 years old and needs to have had a full survey within the last 5 years. Apologies for any confusion.

Does that mean it has to have a survey every 5 years, or does the 30 year clock start again?

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12 minutes ago, Rickent said:

Just had a look at policy agreements and Rusty and Alan are correct it is 30 years old and needs to have had a full survey within the last 5 years. Apologies for any confusion.

Ooooops  - time to call the insurers, beg forgiveness and arrange a survey.

I have found if you 'come clean' with the insurers, they will work with you - I you try and hide 'stuff' I can come and bite you in the bum when you least want it.

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