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Turtles/ Terripins


Crow

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2 hours ago, Athy said:

Oh I don't know, they may quite enjoy it, bless 'em.

Seriously though, are there enough of them in the wild to make an appreciable difference to the balance of nature in Britain? Surely it would need thousands of them to breed, which appears unlikely, if they were to become a widespread nuisance.

There weren't many mink, or signal crayfish to begin with!   It is also clear that there are already a lot spread the length and breadth of the country.   All introductions of alien species generally begin with just a few look at Grey Squirrels a few introduced on a few estates and they have damned nearly wiped out the native Red owing to the pox virus they carry but are immune to.

It is too late to worry about an invasive species once it is settled and has a breeding population.

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51 minutes ago, Crow said:

It seems there's more terrapins about than red squirrels and  bulfinches, the last bullfinch I saw was over 40 years ago,along with yellowhammers ,

Seen loads of bullfinches and yellow hammers around the system.

Saw our first turtle on the Stratford canal below Wilmcote flight at the begining of this month. Seen them on other waterways but not previously on the Stratford.

Rog

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19 hours ago, Jerra said:

Thankfully there has been (so far) no evidence of breeding.  Hopefully eventually they will all die of old age but not before they have done damage to our native wildlife.

 

19 hours ago, Jerra said:

Unlikely.  Terrapin eggs need at temperature of 27 to 30 C for long periods ( 2 months) to incubate the eggs.

You aren't very good at this opposing view thing are you. They've been breeding on the Paddington Arm.and near Uxbridge and Denham Deep for years. The BCN has several areas with colonies. 

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4 minutes ago, matty40s said:

 

You aren't very good at this opposing view thing are you. They've been breeding on the Paddington Arm.and near Uxbridge and Denham Deep for years. The BCN has several areas with colonies. 

Interesting all the references I have referred to state no proven breeding.  Can you please point me to e reference so that I can educate myself.

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55 minutes ago, Crow said:

Yes ,that's the same as we saw on the witham

It's not just the same as,  it's actually the same one. They're plastic and they sell them in garden centres and naughty folk tour the canals propping them on logs on the far bank.

(I made that up)

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On 15/08/2017 at 18:25, matty40s said:

 

You aren't very good at this opposing view thing are you. They've been breeding on the Paddington Arm.and near Uxbridge and Denham Deep for years. The BCN has several areas with colonies. 

Hi Matty I thought I would give this a bump as I really do want to read up on the wild breeding.  In the mean time I assume BCN stands for Birmingham Canal Network so I have checked Ecorecord the ecological database for Birmingham and the Black country.  They have no record of the colonies or breeding so perhaps you would be good enough to contact them to give them the data.  They are at:

Ecorecord

16 Greenfield Crescent

Edgebaston

Birmingham

B15 3AU

email: enquires@ecorecord.org.uk

The non-native species secretariat says: Ironically, none of these species could breed and thus become invasive species in the UK, but they can survive and are visible.

A number of reptile clubs who have bred them in captivity are also of the opinion breeding is very unlikely in the UK and they have experience of how difficult it is.

So you would appear to have some ground breaking knowledge here, so I really look forward to the references you can supply, particularly with respect to the B'ham colonies but also those on the Paddington Arm, near Uxbridge and Denham Deep.

 

Many thanks.  Sorry to have to give you a gentle reminder but these references are really important.

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I think the real problem is that there will always be spates of increased purchases of turtles whenever there is a sequel/reboot of the TMNT franchise.

Last years movie will probably mean that the kids will be getting bored with cleaning out the tanks and the parents will be starting to worry about digit amputation so the canal population will get a boost again.

It is almost like an unnatural "breeding" programme maintaining the population.

If this restocking continues (and there is no reason why it shouldn't) then one summer as climate change progresses we will get the protracted period of hot weather necessary for a successful breeding cycle.

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9 hours ago, carlt said:

I think the real problem is that there will always be spates of increased purchases of turtles whenever there is a sequel/reboot of the TMNT franchise.

Last years movie will probably mean that the kids will be getting bored with cleaning out the tanks and the parents will be starting to worry about digit amputation so the canal population will get a boost again.

It is almost like an unnatural "breeding" programme maintaining the population.

If this restocking continues (and there is no reason why it shouldn't) then one summer as climate change progresses we will get the protracted period of hot weather necessary for a successful breeding cycle.

Red-eared Terrapins (Sliders) are listed in the EU Invasive Alien Species Regulation which means "they cannot be imported, kept, bred, transported, sold, used or exchanged, allowed to reproduce, grown or cultivated, or released into the environment."   Current pets can be allowed to live out their natural lives.  (cultivated as plants are included in the list).

So as it has been declared this regulation will not be repealed after Brexit there should be no more waves of introduction.  However as they are long lived breeding, if it hasn't already taken place (and I can't find a single authenticated record of breeding apart from Matty's assertion for which he has as yet provided no reference) is likely in the future.

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11 hours ago, Jerra said:

 

So as it has been declared this regulation will not be repealed after Brexit there should be no more waves of introduction.  

I suppose we can look forward to spotting Painted Turtles on the cut 6 months after TMNT 2 comes out then.

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56 minutes ago, carlt said:

I suppose we can look forward to spotting Painted Turtles on the cut 6 months after TMNT 2 comes out then.

Sadly that may be true as they aren't a listed species (yet).  However I have been unable to find any evidence of them being invasive any where world wide so perhaps there is hope.

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1 hour ago, Jerra said:

Sadly that may be true as they aren't a listed species (yet).  However I have been unable to find any evidence of them being invasive any where world wide so perhaps there is hope.

From the Invasive Species Compendium (CABI):

Quote

C. picta is an aquatic turtle native to North America popular with pet fanciers around the world. The pet trade is the most common mode of invasion pathway for this species, as individuals escape from their enclosures or when people release them intentionally when they are tired of caring for their pet, when their animals are sick, or to establish new populations. C. picta has been introduced to Europe (Kraus 2009), parts of the United States (Kraus 2009), and in Asia in Indonesia and Philippine Islands (Uetz and Hosek, 2015) but evidence of impact is lacking in the literature. 

 

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On 14/08/2017 at 21:51, Crow said:

Don't know where to post this,and would any one even believe me,   coming back from Boston this weekend on the river witham,we saw 2 big turtles / Terrpins  laying out on a bit of 1/2 submerged bit of plank sunning themselves ,we turned the boat round to try and get a photo ,but by that time they were on panic mode and under the water ,there backs/ shells were 8 inch wide. X  10 long ,At a good estimate, I didn't even know they were any in this country,has any one else seen any,or could they have been flushed down someone's toilet when smaller,any way they looked fit enough to me,and thriving well

I've seen turtles (or terrapins) in the Warwickshire Avon and the Staffs & Worcs.
Supposed to be some in the Glos & Sharpness as well, but I've not seen one yet

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