Boaty legal advisers? Issues with New and Used Boat co.

[Cpickle]

Does anyone have experience of using legal advisers to solve issues with boat supply companies? I am having issues with New and Used Boat Company and whilst going down this route is really the last thing I want to do, I just cant seem to get any resolution through talking to / emailing the staff there, I have been chasing various issues for months and months now and I am fed up. I don't know what else to do at this point other than instruct lawyers.

Bought boat in May, its a new boat and I've been given the wrong Annex - meaning that I have the wrong CB number and have therefore insured and licenced the wrong boat. No manual still either. It took me 3 months just to get a signed copy of the contract back. I just want to be able to have all the correct materials in place should I ever want to sell the boat in the future. Also, if I have a crash or something now my insurance is worthless, and I'm paying monthly for the pleasure! 

I also have some technical issues with the boat, at times it just stops steering and there is no obvious reason why - clear prop etc. The dial shows that the engine is still engaged when its not. Also the fan belt is screeching for the first 10 mins every time I turn the engine on, and its getting progressively worse. Ok, yes things like the fan belt I could get fixed or fix myself - but the boat is under warranty and the contract states that they must be given the opportunity to fix problems themselves. I reported these problems within 10 days of getting the boat as per the contract, again months and no progress. 

Another issue is that there are things in the spec that I was told I was getting and I've actually been given something else, for example -  spec said engine upgraded to 65hp engine, I have a 60hp. When I questioned this at handover I was told something like - oh sometimes the company names the engine a higher number than the actual hp. That would be absolutely fine if that was the case but I was told it would be Vetus 65 and I have received a Canalline 60. I'm sure I would have bought the boat anyway - but being miss led just adds to my annoyance at the above. 

Thanks again all for the advice. 

Cait

[Phil.]

As you have indicated that you are getting nowhere dealing directly with the company, engaging a solicitor is your only real chance of resolving matters. Hopefully your contract spells out the spec you were expecting and the terms of the warranty, as this will be your evidence of any breaches. Just for info, if I am told I am getting a vetus 65 and I get a canalline 60, this is not acceptable.

[zenataomm]

After three months I should have lost my patience.

I 'd have sent a registered mail outlining everything and giving a deadline of no more than 10 days to respond.

I'd have involved Trading Standards as clearly they have supplied the wrong engine.

I once turned up at the sales office of a large company because they were jerking me around in a similar manner.  I camped out there, spread my lunch about and shared my opinions very loudly to every customer that entered. I was threatened with police etc. but eventually somebody senior who was authorised to make decisions appeared just before the local newspaper reporters did.

Then again I am a large uncouth male who finds it easy to present himself in public in an unkempt and bolshie form.  And I had all of the paperwork with me that I was keen to hand out copies of with all of the difference between what I paid for and what I got.

 

Good luck, you'll probably be best going the legal route.  

[Tony Brooks]

Personally I would avoid that company. Shortly after they started they sold a sailaway and when the customer asked some technical questions the advised him to contact me. I felt that was both shabby treatment of the customer and a dammed cheek. They and taken their profit and left obviously thought it fair that I should do their customer support for free.

I did talk to the then owner at the Worcester Boat Show about putting this on a business like footing but I think one could describe his reaction as NFI. Seems little has changed.

[Peter Thornton]

This is the company that uses Droitwich Marina as a sales centre. The Marina seem to have a very good reputation and I can't see them dealing with a company who doesn't look after its customers so maybe this is an unusual situation?

Everything you mention should be relatively easy to fix, apart from the engine. They are two quite different engines and you need to decide if you prefer one to the other. Others are better placed to advise as to which is the best engine, I wouldn't worry about 5hp though

[ditchcrawler]

Aren't trading Standards also the body that enforces (if you can use that term) the RCD. so if that id not correct they should take an interest in that alone.

[matty40s]

I will PM you, you will probably be joining the back of a very long queue.

[Peter Thornton]

The devil will be in the detail. Was there a written contract which specified the make and model of the engine? If not, the op may struggle.

The steering problem is puzzling. It makes me wonder how much experience the op has? It's difficult to see how a boat can "just stop steering"?

[Cpickle]

4 minutes ago, matty40s said:

I will PM you, you will probably be joining the back of a very long queue.

Oh no, this does not sound good! 

 

3 minutes ago, Peter Thornton said:

The devil will be in the detail. Was there a written contract which specified the make and model of the engine? If not, the op may struggle.

The steering problem is puzzling. It makes me wonder how much experience the op has? It's difficult to see how a boat can "just stop steering"?

The contract only refers to the boat as 'stock 353', no spec in the contract. I was given two documents to see the spec and that was one which gave the specifics of stock 353, one of them listing ' engine upgrade' and another document that lists the extras and how much they are. The engine upgrade in that document specifies a Vetus 65. 

Regarding the steering, yes we are newbies, however this was not a problem when steering a stretch from Watford to roughly Bulls Bridge, but started there and has been getting progressively worse. At first, we thought it was just us, but then there would be times where the boat would be heading in one direction and when trying to get it to turn the wheel would stop moving halfway toward its normal maximum point, and it would barely turn. I have no idea what thats about. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Cpickle
only half finished my response.

[frangar]

10 minutes ago, Cpickle said:

Oh no, this does not sound good! 

 

The contract only refers to the boat as 'stock 353', no spec in the contract. I was given two documents to see the spec and that was one which gave the specifics of stock 353, one of them listing ' engine upgrade' and another document that lists the extras and how much they are. The engine upgrade in that document specifies a Vetus 65. 

Regarding the steering, yes we are newbies, however this was not a problem when steering a stretch from Watford to roughly Bulls Bridge, but started there and has been getting progressively worse. At first, we thought it was just us, but then there would be times where the boat would be heading in one direction and when trying to get it to turn the wheel would stop moving halfway toward its normal maximum point, and it would barely turn. I have no idea what thats about. 

Do we take it from this that it's wheel steered widebeam "fat" boat rather than a tiller steered narrowboat? 

[Cpickle]

Just now, frangar said:

Do we take it from this that it's wheel steered widebeam "fat" boat rather than a tiller steered narrowboat? 

Yes - please don't hold it against me! :| 

[Tony Brooks]

Possibly an oil leak on a hydraulic pipe connection of a faulty ram seal. Try topping the steering sysem up - often behind the panel that is in front of the wheel.

[Heffalump]

Sounds like you're getting something caught either in the steering mechanism or between the rudder & swim, nothing dangling underneath? Nothing dangling in the steering arrangement? (Not an eggspurt on wheel steering on boats!)

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Cpickle said:

Yes - please don't hold it against me! :| 

If it is wire or chain 'steered' then it may have jumped or slipped a loop or link - it doesn't really matter what the problem is it is not up to you to sort it.

There is (what was a new WB from N&U boat co) in our marina where the owners have been battling for over 3 years to get the issues resolved - the latest is that they have been told that the water running into the engine compartment and all over the engine is quite normal, and if they are not happy with it to get someone to sort it out for them

[matty40s]

There was a brand new N&U  widebeam delivered with its steering connected the wrong way, quite funny until a fully loaded pair came round the corner.

This wasn't the one with the leaking diesel tank.

Nor was it the one with the new wood floor that became mountainous overnight due to lack of expansion gap.

Edited August 14, 2017 by matty40s

[Cpickle]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If it is wire or chain 'steered' then it may have jumped or slipped a loop or link - it doesn't really matter what the problem is it is not up to you to sort it.

There is (what was a new WB from N&U boat co) in our marina where the owners have been battling for over 3 years to get the issues resolved - the latest is that they have been told that the water running into the engine compartment and all over the engine is quite normal, and if they are not happy with it to get someone to sort it out for them

Thanks,  do you know if they've gone down the legal or trading standards route yet?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Cpickle said:

Thanks,  do you know if they've gone down the legal or trading standards route yet?

Sorry - I don't, we don't spend a lot of time in the marina.

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Possibly an oil leak on a hydraulic pipe connection of a faulty ram seal. Try topping the steering sysem up - often behind the panel that is in front of the wheel.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Cpickle said:

At first, we thought it was just us, but then there would be times where the boat would be heading in one direction and when trying to get it to turn the wheel would stop moving halfway toward its normal maximum point, and it would barely turn

If you do try topping it up, ensure you use the correct ISO VG15 hydraulic oil.

Typical brands are :

Vetus : Hydraulic oil HF15

Shell : Aeroshell Fluid 4

Chevron Texaco : Aircraft Hydraulic 5606G

Esso :Univis HVI 13

Exxon Mobil : Mobil Aero HFA

 

If you buy a 1 litre bottle of 'Volvo Hydraulic Steering oil VG15' from a chandlery it will cost about £26-£30

You can get a 5 litre bottle off ebay for about £20

(I have hydraulic steering that has a very slow leak but I cannot find it - when I need topping up, my symptoms are the reverse of your, I can spin the wheel from lock-to-lock very freely and with no movement of the rudder)
 

[Peter Thornton]

Sounds like you do need the steering sorted out. My comment was based upon the assumption it was a tiller steered narrowboat and my experience when I first started steering and found that sometimes it seemed to not be working properly!

Reading all the above, I'd recommend that you:

1. Do a little research to find out whether you want to insist on the Vetus engine. Maybe start another thread on here? It may be that the Canaline 60 is better suited for your boat - I just don't know. N&UB seem to have standardised on Canaline so maybe you're better keeping it?

2. Send a very formal letter detailing the remedies are requiring ref the rest of the problems. Keep it short and formal, set a reasonable deadline for their response (10 days?) and indicate that you will be consulting a solicitor if you don't receive a response and that will inevitably mean legal fees which you will be looking to recover. Make sure you carry out your threat if you don't receive a response, and don't delay.

3. Consider engaging a marine surveyor to produce a report on the boat. This will cost money so only do this if you suspect some deep seated issues. 

Make sure your demands are reasonable e.g. leave out the slipping fan belt (unless it is more complicated than that) Just concentrate on the serious issues.

[mross]

I suggest you don't make any 'accusations' in a public forum like this since you could be sued for libel.  It's OK to talk in generalities.  But I think you should be taking legal advice already.

[nicknorman]

25 minutes ago, mross said:

I suggest you don't make any 'accusations' in a public forum like this since you could be sued for libel.  It's OK to talk in generalities.  But I think you should be taking legal advice already.

Well a libel lawsuit will only be won if what is being said is not true.

[Guest]

What a horrible situation to be in, sorry for stating the bleeding obvious!

I would consider legal advice as this has gone on far too long, you have various rights under the revised Consumer Act 2015, which give you a much stronger hand for insisting on 'goods' fit for purpose and so on. Here is a link;

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/how-citizens-advice-works/citizens-advice-consumer-work/the-consumer-rights-act-2015/

I hope this helps a little.

[Tonka]

But surely you accepted the boat when new. Did you not check the engine for example was the model specced. If I went to buy a Ford Focus, I would check that I was getting the Focus I specced before driving away and then think about getting a lawyer/

[furnessvale]

8 minutes ago, Tonka said:

But surely you accepted the boat when new. Did you not check the engine for example was the model specced. If I went to buy a Ford Focus, I would check that I was getting the Focus I specced before driving away and then think about getting a lawyer/

Possibly, but would the average motorist know a 1.6 engine from a 1.8?

I have a reasonably new car, but I have never checked to see if I have the 1.3 engine I am supposed to have!

George

[Tonka]

31 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

Possibly, but would the average motorist know a 1.6 engine from a 1.8?

I have a reasonably new car, but I have never checked to see if I have the 1.3 engine I am supposed to have!

George

But you would have checked GTI or base model