Winter moorings (unattended)

[Mick in Bangkok]

Hi, a point I am still not quite up to speed on is winter moorings in and out of the water. Understandably as per advice already received out of water costs an additional fee and limits the use of the boat but as I would consider going overseas, Ireland etc. for the Christmas months to visit family would an out of water be a better option? Can boats be left unattended at marinas for say 4 months of the year either in our out of the water and which would provide the better more secure option for a boat that is left unattended.

 

Cheers Mick

[Naughty Cal]

Storage ashore at our marina is cheaper than storage in the water for the winter months but there is of course the lift in and out to consider as well.

Three months ashore including lift out chock ashore and relaunch is about £300 based on our size boat where as three months mooring in the water is £425.

 

[rusty69]

We used to lift our grp boat out and store all winter ashore in a locked compound. 

I Wouldn't consider doing this with our 70FT narrowboat as the cost would be high. You may get away with it with a smaller boat, crane and hardstanding or a trailer. 

[Momac]

 

A boat in the water is better protected from frost compared to a boat ashore.

You may wish to winterise the boat by draining off all domestic water . However some frost protection heating would be advisable. Buy tube heaters with a built in thermostat or a temperature activated switch from B&Q which I have set to cut in when the temperature falls below 5 degrees. A dehumidifier helps guard against mould. The dehumidifier may not be effective at temperatures below 5 degrees but this has not been a big deal , for me, over the last few winters .    

The main risk is that shore power could be cut , which can happen if a neighbouring boat has an electrical fault.  I believe, using a mobile phone on the boat and an app  can be used to detect when power is cut which will send you a text.

Edited August 12, 2017 by MartynG

[Mick in Bangkok]

22 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

We used to lift our grp boat out and store all winter ashore in a locked compound. 

I Wouldn't consider doing this with our 70FT narrowboat as the cost would be high. You may get away with it with a smaller boat, crane and hardstanding or a trailer. 

 Can I ask what lift out and land based storage might be for a 70' I would be retired when I put this plan into action so can be flexible on location.

Also would the marina management keep an eye on the boat during the owners absence or would it be left totally unattended.

 

Cheers Mick

[Naughty Cal]

5 minutes ago, MartynG said:

 

A boat in the water is better protected from frost compared to a boat ashore.

You may wish to winterise the boat by draining off all domestic water . However some frost protection heating would be advisable. Buy tube heaters with a built in thermostat or a temperature activated switch from B&Q which I have set to cut in when the temperature falls below 5 degrees. A dehumidifier helps guard against mould. The dehumidifier may not be effective at temperatures below 5 degrees but this has not been a big deal , for me, over the last few winters .    

The main risk is that shore power could be cut , which can happen if a neighbouring boat has an electrical fault.  I believe, using a mobile phone on the boat and an app  can be used to detect when power is cut which will send you a text.

Assuming this is a narrowboat then chances are it will be keel cooled so no need to heat the engine bay and provided the water systems are drained down properly no need to heat the boat at all.

Just provide it with adequate ventilation to keep the condensation at bay.

If a raw water cooled engine is properly winterised there is no need to heat it.

 

1 minute ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

 Can I ask what lift out and land based storage might be for a 70' I would be retired when I put this plan into action so can be flexible on location.

Also would the marina management keep an eye on the boat during the owners absence or would it be left totally unattended.

 

Cheers Mick

Costs will vary from marina to marina.

[Mick in Bangkok]

From my calculations marina costs are comparable to heating and running costs so can I assume that cruising the canal would be similar to left on hard standing for the months I am away?

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

 Can I ask what lift out and land based storage might be for a 70' I would be retired when I put this plan into action so can be flexible on location.

Also would the marina management keep an eye on the boat during the owners absence or would it be left totally unattended.

 

Cheers Mick

I suspect you would need a yard with a crane and a fair amount of hardstanding area, or transport the boat elsewhere.

The yard will likely keep a passing eye on your boat, but will probably  be left unattended most of the time. 

[Momac]

24 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Assuming this is a narrowboat then chances are it will be keel cooled so no need to heat the engine bay and provided the water systems are drained down properly no need to heat the boat at all.

Just provide it with adequate ventilation to keep the condensation at bay.

If a raw water cooled engine is properly winterised there is no need to heat it.

It may be  quite difficult to be certain that all water is removed from the domestic plumbing. 

Last winter was quite mild and as a result I noticed more condensation than usual. Even with no one on the boat there was condensation developing. The moisture traps I had in use  were not coping. So I bought a dehumidifier and it  immediately made  a big difference. The dehumidifier was not cheap to run but better than risking mould issues .  The dehumidifier also creates a little warmth so helps with frost protection.

[mrsmelly]

For me it would be in water with elecrical hook up and depending on boat 2/3/4 oil filled rads left on and webasto on frost stat. All in all a few quid a week but not much in the boating life costs and would keep damp and damage at bay. I suppose a fire could ensue if we were pessimists from a faulty rad but you could also get run over by a bus walking across the road to your marina.

[Momac]

A very small bonus -  the water collected from the dehumidifier is deionised so it can be collected and used in a steam mop or  iron.

 

[Mick in Bangkok]

21 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

For me it would be in water with elecrical hook up and depending on boat 2/3/4 oil filled rads left on and webasto on frost stat. All in all a few quid a week but not much in the boating life costs and would keep damp and damage at bay. I suppose a fire could ensue if we were pessimists from a faulty rad but you could also get run over by a bus walking across the road to your marina.

This sounds like a good option, would the marina empty dehumidifier ?

Would the boat be in danger of winter storms on the water?

[rusty69]

8 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

This sounds like a good option, would the marina empty dehumidifier ?

Would the boat be in danger of winter storms on the water?

Get one that empties overboard 

its more likely on a river, but certainly worth consideration on a canal. Less likely in a marina, but not impossible. 

Edited August 12, 2017 by rusty69

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

From my calculations marina costs are comparable to heating and running costs so can I assume that cruising the canal would be similar to left on hard standing for the months I am away?

Boat left in the water.

I had 4x 'greenhouse heaters' in my engine bay last winter whilst we were abroad - the running cost was approximately £1 per day (about 7KwH). I left the neighbouring boat with some top-up cards and asked then to keep 'an eye' on the boat / electric bollard particularly if it turned very cold.

The £100 it cost in electricity was much less than the cost to have a lift out / lift in let alone the storage costs 'on the hard'.

[Momac]

16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Boat left in the water.

I had 4x 'greenhouse heaters' in my engine bay last winter whilst we were abroad - the running cost was approximately £1 per day (about 7KwH). I left the neighbouring boat with some top-up cards and asked then to keep 'an eye' on the boat / electric bollard particularly if it turned very cold.

The £100 it cost in electricity was much less than the cost to have a lift out / lift in let alone the storage costs 'on the hard'.

Using the B&Q controller that I mentioned cut down frost protection heating bills last winter . I think it paid for itself over last winter compared to leaving heaters on all the time or on a  timer ... as the weather was so mild .

http://www.diy.com/departments/bq-white-1-gang-240v-13a-temperature-controlled-adaptor/178195_BQ.prd

 

 

 

[Momac]

30 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

This sounds like a good option, would the marina empty dehumidifier ?

Would the boat be in danger of winter storms on the water?

I doubt the marina would empty the dehumidifier - at least not for free. The dehumidifier I have can be arranged to drain overboard - the risk being the drain freezes.

http://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/meaco_8l_desiccant_dehumidifier_electronic_control_dd8l/version.asp

 

Winter storms - not sure there is any more risk in the water than ashore. If in the water and at risk from flooding, which is naturally possible most places  ,  best to be on a floating pontoon . If ashore best be certain floods cant rise to a level that could float the boat  (it has happened).

[roland elsdon]

For the last 6 years we have left our 1936 open hold ex working boat in the uk whilst we work in Australia for 6 to 8 months. It is not in a marina.

drain water system, sterilise all surfaces,pack all bedding  and clothing in sealed bags. Seal engine air intake. Clean out fridge cooker. Wd 40 all metal surfaces ( range/ fire).polish brass and grease check drains.

2 bilge pumps both auto, solar panel on all batteries, service engine.polish cabin,inside and out, bleach hull sides..check stern tube Our insurance company are aware, but don't cover neglect anyway of course.

check stern tube

shut doors go fly.

On return reverse. Never had problem. We have sympathetic friends who observe and have been known to mop off

[Mick in Bangkok]

10 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

For the last 6 years we have left our 1936 open hold ex working boat in the uk whilst we work in Australia for 6 to 8 months. It is not in a marina.

drain water system, sterilise all surfaces,pack all bedding  and clothing in sealed bags. Seal engine air intake. Clean out fridge cooker. Wd 40 all metal surfaces ( range/ fire).polish brass and grease check drains.

2 bilge pumps both auto, solar panel on all batteries, service engine.polish cabin,inside and out, bleach hull sides..check stern tube Our insurance company are aware, but don't cover neglect anyway of course.

check stern tube

shut doors go fly.

On return reverse. Never had problem. We have sympathetic friends who observe and have been known to mop off

Hi Roland, is she left in the water or on hard standing.

[roland elsdon]

No afloat hence checking stern tube serial times

have done this with 3 boats over the years, 1928 1936 and1937 vintage.

[Canal Cuttings]

Check the dehumidifier spec carefully.  Many can be damaged by water freezing in the pipes etc, so the manufacturers arrange for them to cut out as soon as it gets chilly. (this can be around 5 degrees C, so autumn weather!)  In other words, useless all winter.  Select a version that will work right down to freezing point.

[cuthound]

My view is that if you have electricity available to power a dehumidifier, then you might as well use it to power a couple of oil filled electric radiators as well.

That way the boat will be kept above freezing, so winterisation will just consist of turning off the water at the tank,  opening taps to drain the pipes, and bunging up the high and low level vents to prevent the dehumidifier from trying to dry the whole world,  rather than just your boat.

[Dr Bob]

On 12/08/2017 at 09:50, MartynG said:

Using the B&Q controller that I mentioned cut down frost protection heating bills last winter . I think it paid for itself over last winter compared to leaving heaters on all the time or on a  timer ... as the weather was so mild .

http://www.diy.com/departments/bq-white-1-gang-240v-13a-temperature-controlled-adaptor/178195_BQ.prd

 

 

 

The reviews on this product on the B&Q site dont look too encouraging. Lots of one star saying the unit resets to 20degC and switches off. I'm in the market to buy a couple but dont fancy these.

[Momac]

2 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

The reviews on this product on the B&Q site dont look too encouraging. Lots of one star saying the unit resets to 20degC and switches off. I'm in the market to buy a couple but dont fancy these.

The one I have seemed to be working as intended during last winter - which was its first use from new.  I had it set on 5 degrees and according to its built in max/min  recorded temperatures the temp fell no lower than 4.6 degrees.  I will obviously need to check it out before next winter . 

[DandV]

We have left Whio afloat without a shore power connection for 5.5 months for the last four winters. The previous owners did exactly the same for the previous seven years. The domestic water system was always drained. Condensation has not been a problem for us but a small amount of mildue on a couple of the curtains was evident on the seven year old curtains was when we bought her. The previous owners did however replace a leaking calourifier after the cold winter of 2011? (frost damage perhaps?). We also found when we winterised her for our first time in 2013 that the ceramic water filter cartridge had previously burst probably because the drain down procedure had missed it. 

On the first year we did find minor amounts of superficial mould on shoes and jackets stored in the wardrobe so in subsequent years we hung the jackets within the cabin which worked. 

We were actually surprised by how dry the boat remained but with no internal source of moisture and the mandated high level and low level ventilation seems to work.

 

Edited August 28, 2017 by DandV
Added effect on clothing

[cuthound]

I use a Meaco DD8L dehumidifier. It has performed faultlessly for the last 3 winters.