Will We Kill These Batteries?

[Naughty Cal]

What with all of the talk of correct charging voltages in another topic I thought I would dig out the literature for our current batteries which we bought earlier this year to compare the stated charge voltages with what we are actually giving them.

The blurb states they need a charge voltage of 14.6v, a float voltage of 13.05v and a monthly equalization charge at 15.3v.

Our alternator will charger at 14.6v but the battery charger only 14.4v and the float charge is 13.6v with no option for an equalization charge. 

So my question is will this adversely affect the batteries and will we kill them off quicker than expected with these charge voltages?

The battery charger despite being stupidly expensive (Newmar) is fairly basic and only has one present charge characteristics.

[rusty69]

8 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

So my question is will this adversely affect the batteries and will we kill them off quicker than expected with these charge voltages?

 

Probably, if you don't follow the manufacturer's instructions, but probably by not a lot.

If you get five years out of them at 0.62p/week like your last lot, thats pretty good for a consumable item. 

[MtB]

On 06/08/2017 at 08:37, Naughty Cal said:

So my question is will this adversely affect the batteries and will we kill them off quicker than expected with these charge voltages?

 

Impossible to answer with the info given.

It seems to depend a lot on what proportion of the time they spend at less than 100% SoC. The higher the proportion, the equalising is needed. (And equalising them properly becomes impossible under cold conditions as the gear to do it simply isn't available on the market.)

Beasr in mind that the Trojan instructions glibly say if discharged at all, they must immediately be re-charged. Anything deviating from this and you are on the slippery slope of not using them as instructed. The cynic in me suspects battery manufacturers will always include impossible-to-meet instructions like this and use them to defend guarantee claims.

You haven't even said what type of batteries these are, by the way!

Edited August 6, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman

[Nickhlx]

... and all the voltages are temperature dependant... With a 14.6 volt alternator and global warming, I reckon you'll get a good life out of them with regular cruising

 

[WotEver]

18 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

So my question is will this adversely affect the batteries and will we kill them off quicker than expected with these charge voltages?

My understanding is that you're either cruising a lot (and therefore charging) or you're in a marina and on shore power (and therefore charging). You don't spend a lot of time in one place dragging the batteries down and leaving it days to fully charge them again. 

If the above is correct then no, you won't kill them off quicker, they'll do just fine. 

Tony

[Naughty Cal]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Impossible to answer with the info given.

It seems to depend a lot on what proportion of the time they spend at less than 100 SoC. The higher the proportion, the more effort is needed to equalise them properly. And equalising them properly becomes impossible under cold conditions as the gear to do it simply isn't available on the market.

Beasr in mind the Trojan instructions that glibly say if discharged at all, they must immediately be re-charged.

You haven't even said what type of batteries these are!

They are Bison batteries. These:

http://www.bisonbatteries.com/shop/leisure-batteries/bison-bxc31mf-leisure-battery-12v-105ah/

They get used fairly heavily at the weekend but then spend the week on charge. Although we do tend to cruise fairly long hours when out and about so they don't tend to get too discharged for too long.

They are currently sat at 12.5v after a day in Lincoln yesterday away from shore power and having used the electric kettle twice this morning. We are planning to stay here for most of the day and then head back to the marina this evening which is fairly typical weekend use for us. We expect the voltage will be about 12.4v by the time we are ready to head back.

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, Naughty Cal said:

They are Bison batteries. These:

http://www.bisonbatteries.com/shop/leisure-batteries/bison-bxc31mf-leisure-battery-12v-105ah/

They get used fairly heavily at the weekend but then spend the week on charge. Although we do tend to cruise fairly long hours when out and about so they don't tend to get too discharged for too long.

They are currently sat at 12.5v after a day in Lincoln yesterday away from shore power and having used the electric kettle twice this morning. We are planning to stay here for most of the day and then head back to the marina this evening which is fairly typical weekend use for us. We expect the voltage will be about 12.4v by the time we are ready to head back.

Then they'll be fine

Edited August 6, 2017 by WotEver

[nicknorman]

I think with your usage pattern - mostly on shore power - the need for equalisation probably won't arise. Especially as the charger's float voltage is rather high. If the batteries are wet with accessible fluid, you can check the fully charged specific gravity. If it has decreased then an equalise is needed and you can then contemplate how you might do it. Not much current is required so you could for instance buy a variable bench power supply and set it to 15.3v.

My primary concern is the high float voltage. Presumably you are in the habit of leaving the charger on 24/7 when it's in the marina? The high float voltage causes something called plate corrosion which will potentially slowly damage the batteries in the long term. The only question is whether that will be significant compared to the damage accrued by normal usage. I'm afraid I can't answer that. Does it need to be on permanent shore charge when you're not on it? Maybe a time switch on the charger that will give it a charge for a few hours once a week? (But make sure the batteries don't discharge into the charger when it's switched off - some chargers are bad for that).

[Naughty Cal]

We leave the fridge turned on so we leave the charger on to compensate for that during the week.

The batteries are sealed so no access to top them up or get SG's. Doing so would be a pain anyway with the access to them.

[Alan de Enfield]

Why worry :

1) When they are dead they are dead, replace them.

2) You said you were selling the boat this year.

[MtB]

Curiously I can't see your BXC31MF batteries mentioned anywhere in the manufacturers data download section. 

[Naughty Cal]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Curiously I can't see your BXC31MF batteries mentioned anywhere in the manufacturers data download section. 

We got a data sheet when we bought them. We didn't pay that price for them either!

Got two for £150 rather then the £140 each in that link!

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Why worry :

1) When they are dead they are dead, replace them.

2) You said you were selling the boat this year.

That has been put on hold. We are considering keeping NC and buying something else as well.

We have a trip to the Thames next summer now. So can't sell her yet .

[Momac]

The smart charger I bought from Aldi delivers a higher voltage and pulse charges .  It doesn't deliver many amps but it  helped revive my batteries which were sluggish after the winter therefore seems good for giving the batteries a work out now and again. 

I think the Aldi smart charger generally appears for sale around mid October and cost me about £15.

 

 

[mrsmelly]

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Impossible to answer with the info given.

It seems to depend a lot on what proportion of the time they spend at less than 100% SoC. The higher the proportion, the equalising is needed. (And equalising them properly becomes impossible under cold conditions as the gear to do it simply isn't available on the market.)

Beasr in mind that the Trojan instructions glibly say if discharged at all, they must immediately be re-charged. Anything deviating from this and you are on the slippery slope of not using them as instructed. The cynic in me suspects battery manufacturers will always include impossible-to-meet instructions like this and use them to defend guarantee claims.

You haven't even said what type of batteries these are, by the way!

Mike, surely the installation of a " Smartgauge " eliminates any possibility of battery problems?

[rusty69]

Just now, mrsmelly said:

Mike, surely the installation of a " Smartgauge " eliminates any possibility of battery problems?

Nnnnnnnmmnooooooooooo! 

[bizzard]

Expensive Pedegree batteries can be like expensive pedegree pets, short lived and temperamental.  I'd rather have a cheap mongrel battery any day.

[Naughty Cal]

10 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Expensive Pedegree batteries can be like expensive pedegree pets, short lived and temperamental.  I'd rather have a cheap mongrel battery any day.

They were cheap at £75 each. 

[rusty69]

14 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Expensive Pedegree batteries can be like expensive pedegree pets, short lived and temperamental.  I'd rather have a cheap mongrel battery any day.

That's good advice chum! 

Edited August 6, 2017 by rusty69

[bizzard]

11 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

They were cheap at £75 each. 

Those would probably be pedegree ones where a bit of suspicious inter breeding went on,  where nobody came out to throw a bucket of water over them to dampen their ardour

Edited August 6, 2017 by bizzard

[David Mack]

On 06/08/2017 at 08:59, Naughty Cal said:

They are Bison batteries. These:

http://www.bisonbatteries.com/shop/leisure-batteries/bison-bxc31mf-leisure-battery-12v-105ah/

They get used fairly heavily at the weekend but then spend the week on charge. Although we do tend to cruise fairly long hours when out and about so they don't tend to get too discharged for too long.

They are currently sat at 12.5v after a day in Lincoln yesterday away from shore power and having used the electric kettle twice this mor 90thning. We are planning to stay here for most of the day and then head back to the marina this evening which is fairly typical weekend use for us. We expect the voltage will be about 12.4v by the time we are ready to head back.

Why Bison? Their website has no physical address or phone number - only contact form or email, which always sttikes me as dodgy. And the advertised prices don't look very competitive.

[Naughty Cal]

7 hours ago, David Mack said:

Why Bison? Their website has no physical address or phone number - only contact form or email, which always sttikes me as dodgy. And the advertised prices don't look very competitive.

We got them through a local battery supplier who uses them himself on his own boat. He was able to sell them too us at a decent price, £75 each and he is very happy with them so we were happy to give them a try.

They have been on for 6 months or so now and they seem to be up to the job. They certainly handle the heavier loads such as the electric kettle far better than our previous Varta batteries ever did, even when new.

[keith.]

8 hours ago, David Mack said:

Why Bison? Their website has no physical address or phone number - only contact form or email, which always sttikes me as dodgy. And the advertised prices don't look very competitive.

Does this show badge engineering is alive and well? I cannot see a great difference between Bison and Numax https://www.tayna.co.uk/Numax-CXV31MF-P3694.html

 

On paper they look like a damn good battery, particularly at that price. Are they available to everyone at £150 for the pair NC or is that mate's rates?

[Naughty Cal]

46 minutes ago, keith. said:

Does this show badge engineering is alive and well? I cannot see a great difference between Bison and Numax https://www.tayna.co.uk/Numax-CXV31MF-P3694.html

 

On paper they look like a damn good battery, particularly at that price. Are they available to everyone at £150 for the pair NC or is that mate's rates?

They were at mates rates but you could always give them a try to see what they can do for you. South Yorkshire Battery Services in Sheffield.

More on the full Bison range on their website:

http://www.sybsgroup.co.uk/brands-batteries/bison-batteries/

[Dylan]

On 06/08/2017 at 12:03, bizzard said:

Expensive Pedegree batteries can be like expensive pedegree pets, short lived and temperamental.  I'd rather have a cheap mongrel battery any day.

My gurlfriend like this but she gone now. She always leave light on too and using all hot water. My battery now happier und my penshion lasting longest.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Dylan

[Neil Smith]

12 hours ago, Dylan said:

My gurlfriend like this but she gone now. She always leave light on too and using all hot water. My battery now happier und my penshion lasting longest.

I think most of us have had one like that in the past.