Boat Generators

[Jacobyte]

Hello, I was wanting help with finding the correct type generator for keeping leisure batteries toped up while cruising, so don't have to keep starting engine all the time, I have seen this generator Medusa T951 at Toolstation for £118.00 https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p12867?mkwid=sP5Ljqe2r_dc&pcrid=204088985754&pkw=&pmt=&product=12867&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInt_7rpab1QIVzLDtCh06 , would this be the correct type or not, It's my first boat and unsure about this subject, any help would be appreciated, thanks Mike.

[Tony Brooks]

This is a petrol generator so far from ideal on a boat. As far as the BSS is concerned both it and any spare petrol will need to be stored in a structure like the gas bottle tank and when in use off the boat.

You will also need a battery charger to go with it. Any 12V charging outputs on most generators are very limited. With just 750 watts I suspect you will only be able to run a 10 to 20 amp charger.

The engines in such generators are built down to a price so its longevity is questionable.

[Rob@BSSOffice]

As you are new to the subject, please take our advice on board. Generators are known repeat killers when they are not used in the ways that reduce the associated risks https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/stay-safe/generator-safety/

[Chewbacka]

This one is also a 2 stroke so it may be a bit noisy and smelly.

Just looked it up and to quote "Suitable for many applications with a very low noise level of just 95db".  Which is about the same as a petrol lawn mower, which I would not describe as having a very low noise level.  It is also not an inverter gennie so the output wave form may not be suitable for some electronic equipment.  As it is not an inverter generator it will probably be running at full speed all the time it is running - so noisy - even when supplying a low amount of power.  

The main Plus point is that it does not cost very much compared to the best gennie of similar output power which is a Honda EU10i which will cost you well over £700

 

Added - I may sound a bit negative about your choice, but I don't like being moored up close to a noisy and smelly gennie, however, I will let someone else give you their, hopefully less biased opinion.  Oh and another plus point is that it is a lot less desirable than a Honda to a passing thief, though I would still chain it up when running on the tow path.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Chewbacka

[Heffalump]

2 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

This one is also a 2 stroke so it may be a bit noisy and smelly.

Just looked it up and to quote "Suitable for many applications with a very low noise level of just 95db".  Which is about the same as a petrol lawn mower, which I would not describe as having a very low noise level.  It is also not an inverter gennie so the output wave form may not be suitable for some electronic equipment.  As it is not an inverter generator it will probably be running at full speed all the time it is running - so noisy - even when supplying a low amount of power.  

The main Plus point is that it does not cost very much compared to the best gennie of similar output power which is a Honda EU10i which will cost you well over £700

Note also that employers are required to provide hearing protection when noise levels exceed 86db!

[Jacobyte]

So are there any alternatives to this generator that I can use and is around the same price ?

[Heffalump]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3462885/The-electricity-generator-pedal-Free-Electric-bike-create-24-hours-electricity-just-hour-exercise.html

Excuse the daily fail link.

But seriously for that price tag I think you're unlikely to find something that is safe and covers your needs.

Happy to be proven otherwise!

[Dr Bob]

27 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

 I may sound a bit negative about your choice, but I don't like being moored up close to a noisy and smelly gennie,

+1

[Victor Vectis]

Generators are evil noisy, smelly things and should be banned.

I realise I might be in a minority expressing this opinion but the best place for them is at the bottom of the cut! (emptied of petrol, oil and any other pollutants of course)

[Chewbacka]

28 minutes ago, Jacobyte said:

So are there any alternatives to this generator that I can use and is around the same price ?

Generators - I don't have one myself - but I think are very much in the 'you get what you pay for'.  Even the £700 Honda is not that quiet.  Second hand is very risky, as you have no idea how much it has been abused.

I will let others that actually own a gennie let you know what they think of their's.

[Graham Davis]

1 hour ago, Jacobyte said:

Hello, I was wanting help with finding the correct type generator for keeping leisure batteries toped up while cruising, so don't have to keep starting engine all the time, I have seen this generator Medusa T951 at Toolstation for £118.00 https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p12867?mkwid=sP5Ljqe2r_dc&pcrid=204088985754&pkw=&pmt=&product=12867&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInt_7rpab1QIVzLDtCh06 , would this be the correct type or not, It's my first boat and unsure about this subject, any help would be appreciated, thanks Mike.

If you are cruising then your engine is running, therefore the alternator is charging the batteries, so I don't understand why you need a generator.

If this for when you are moored up then perhaps you need to look at your electric usage, your battery condition and numbers, replacing your bulbs with LED's and also perhaps spending the money on a decent solar array, not a noisy gennie.

[blackrose]

If you do buy a generator buy a half decent one for gawd's sake.

[Neil2]

I had a small Honda generator that came with the last boat.  It got nicked but I think the scoundrel who took it did me a big favour.  Forget those cheap "workshop" generators just a waste of money, as regards the Hondas,  far better to spend the money on decent quality batteries, solar panels and an inverter.  The only generator worth having is one of the pukka cocooned diesel types that cost a fortune.   

[Jacobyte]

Thanks for all the comments, may go the solar panel route instead, what size/power output solar panel would I require for a 24v system to help keep it charged.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Jacobyte

[MtB]

4 hours ago, Jacobyte said:

So are there any alternatives to this generator that I can use and is around the same price ?

 

No.

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, Jacobyte said:

Thanks for all the comments, may go the solar panel route instead, what size/power output solar panel would I require for a 24v system to help keep it charged.

The size you need will depend on how much lectrickery you use - but - remember solar only works 'well' from May to September, reasonably well in April &October and not at all in November, December, January & February, but may start to produce again in March.

[MtB]

 

But being more serious, you ask about generating electricity whilst cruising. Your engine alternator will do that. 

If you actually mean generate electricity whilst not cruising, then assuming you are planning to live aboard generating electricity is the foundation upon which you base your whole liveaboard life. It is neither cheap nor easy nor quick.

There are endless threads about it on here, have a search. Getting a grip on how to keep yourself supplied with electricity, or not, will either make you or break you as a liveaboard.

[Neil2]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

But being more serious, you ask about generating electricity whilst cruising. Your engine alternator will do that. 

If you actually mean generate electricity whilst not cruising, then assuming you are planning to live aboard generating electricity is the foundation upon which you base your whole liveaboard life. It is neither cheap nor easy nor quick.

There are endless threads about it on here, have a search. Getting a grip on how to keep yourself supplied with electricity, or not, will either make you or break you as a liveaboard.

Which is why, increasingly, liveaboards spend 3-4 months in a marina.  

[MtB]

13 hours ago, Jacobyte said:

Hello, I was wanting help with finding the correct type generator for keeping leisure batteries toped up while cruising, so don't have to keep starting engine all the time, I have seen this generator Medusa T951 at Toolstation for £118.00 https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p12867?mkwid=sP5Ljqe2r_dc&pcrid=204088985754&pkw=&pmt=&product=12867&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInt_7rpab1QIVzLDtCh06 , would this be the correct type or not, It's my first boat and unsure about this subject, any help would be appreciated, thanks Mike.

 

Being a little more constructive, the tone of your post suggests to me you may not have grasped the scale of the task, and you underestimate it by an order of magnitude.

Firstly, may we assume you are a liveaboard, quite new at it, and you are slowly coming to realise that battery management is actually a really important issue? (I.e. this is not a casual question by an occasional leisure boater whose boat spends 95% of its life on hook-up charge in a marina.) If the latter then yes a cheapo genny like your link will do the job, but you'll still need to spend a further £150-ish on a battery charger for it to run. 

Assuming you are a CCing liveaboard, then a series of questions first needs to be asked:

1) How you know your batteries need to be "topped up"? Do you have some sort of gauge or do you know because the lights go dim?

2) What's wrong with running your engine to do it?

3) How often do you cruise? Most of the time? A day or two every few days? One day a fortnight?

4) What battery bank do you have now? Make model, capacity and quantity of the batteries please.

Once you post this information, some detailed and constructive advice will inevitably follow, and the thread will rumble on for weeks!!

 

 

[Jacobyte]

Firstly, may we assume you are a liveaboard - Wrong

Quite new at it - correct

battery management is actually a really important issue - correct

Further £150-ish on a battery charger for it to run - Will do

1) How you know your batteries need to be "topped up"? Do you have some sort of gauge or do you know because the lights go dim? - Gauge

2) What's wrong with running your engine to do it? - Engine needs servicing and some repairs so not running at it's best currently

3) How often do you cruise? Most of the time? A day or two every few days? One day a fortnight? - Currently unknown as just getting boat home, first trip, week to 2 week holidays would be used for.

4) What battery bank do you have now? Make model, capacity and quantity of the batteries please -2 Leisure Batteries 1 starter Battery, Battery Bank 24v, Make Cruiser Seamaster 23

Looking at alternatives if not generator/charger then maybe Solar panels, just want some help/guidance on this issue, thought the users of this forum would know all about this subject owning narrow boats.

 

[Jacobyte]

19 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The size you need will depend on how much lectrickery you use - but - remember solar only works 'well' from May to September, reasonably well in April &October and not at all in November, December, January & February, but may start to produce again in March.

Would only be cruising in the summer months so wouldn't matter the rest of the year.

[Dylan]

I bought an elderly Yamaha suitcase generator some years ago which was secondhand then. I paid 100 quid for it. Probably 20 years old  now I think, and still going strong today. We use it on those nights when the solar hasn't quite made it (marina based  liveaboard at moment, with no shorepower.) I agree with those who say that safety is an issue with petrol gennies, and care must be taken. Ours only comes aboard if the tank is dry, and fuel is stored in a safe manner.

[Tony Brooks]

That is a small boat and I suspect the  size and shape of the roof will severely limit the amount of solar you can fit. I think that you should get enough on to keep the batteries charged and recharge them when you are away from the boat for a few days. I very much doubt that it will be enough to provide your domestic needs.

I note that you have had a lot of help before you thought to disclose what sort of boat you have and how you use it.

Are you sure its 24 volt, that would be an unusual Seamaster 23 if it is. More likely 2 x 100 Ah ish 12v batteries connected in parallel to give 12V at twice the capacity.

I expect this forum knows more about the subject that almost anyone else BUT if you do not provide the information we can only guess.

All being well the engine WILL charge the batteries as long as you run it for long enough but long enough could be in excess of 8 hours a day, more if you do not run the engine every day.

What are the results of your power audit? What is the output of the alternator? What is the label capacity of the batteries? All need to be answered if we are to give sensible advice.

I and several others use a voltmeter to know when it is vital to start charging but in reality for optimum battery life it should be every day, and an ammeter to show when the batteries are more or less fully charged. Using the voltmeter and getting reliable results takes knowledge, practice and experience. There is a sort of fuel gauge for batteries known as a Smartguage and that is about the best you can do if you are inexperienced. Other type of "fuel gauges" for batteries that count amp hours are almost certainly going to cause the inexperienced to ruin batteries.

My advice is to get the engine running properly and use that for charging initially. Anyway I think most Seamasters of that age use a calorifier for hot water and that needs the engine running to work.

Ignoring the real safety concerns I think the  generator you link to plus a suitably sized battery charge (suitable for generator) will do for now BUT there is still a question   about the wave form and if electronic charger will run on it.

[Dylan]

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

That is a small boat and I suspect the  size and shape of the roof will severely limit the amount of solar you can fit. I think that you should get enough on to keep the batteries charged and recharge them when you are away from the boat for a few days. I very much doubt that it will be enough to provide your domestic needs.

I note that you have had a lot of help before you thought to disclose what sort of boat you have and how you use it.

Are you sure its 24 volt, that would be an unusual Seamaster 23 if it is. More likely 2 x 100 Ah ish 12v batteries connected in parallel to give 12V at twice the capacity.

I expect this forum knows more about the subject that almost anyone else BUT if you do not provide the information we can only guess.

All being well the engine WILL charge the batteries as long as you run it for long enough but long enough could be in excess of 8 hours a day, more if you do not run the engine every day.

What are the results of your power audit? What is the output of the alternator? What is the label capacity of the batteries? All need to be answered if we are to give sensible advice.

I and several others use a voltmeter to know when it is vital to start charging but in reality for optimum battery life it should be every day, and an ammeter to show when the batteries are more or less fully charged. Using the voltmeter and getting reliable results takes knowledge, practice and experience. There is a sort of fuel gauge for batteries known as a Smartguage and that is about the best you can do if you are inexperienced. Other type of "fuel gauges" for batteries that count amp hours are almost certainly going to cause the inexperienced to ruin batteries.

My advice is to get the engine running properly and use that for charging initially. Anyway I think most Seamasters of that age use a calorifier for hot water and that needs the engine running to work.

Ignoring the real safety concerns I think the  generator you link to plus a suitably sized battery charge (suitable for generator) will do for now BUT there is still a question   about the wave form and if electronic charger will run on it.

Interesting point re charges and gennies. We have a Sterling charger which has run successfully off our genny for 14 years (not continuously!) Sterling recommended it for running off a genny and it was excellent advice, seems it can run from a crazy range of voltages and frequencies. Doubt if they make this model now, but might be worth a chat with sterling?

[Tony Brooks]

It all depends upon what generator. The inverter generators have a waveform that is probably better than the actual mains. The non-inverter ones will not and the frequency is likely to be al lover the place as well.