More trouble - stop lever?

[RLWP]

36 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Edited to add:- I have just had a look at some images of PHWs and their injector pumps are of a similar type but they are mounted on the outside of the engine with an exposed control rod. That one would be easy to give the control rod a pull or shove to make sure its where you need it to be.

And balance the pumps. On the other hand, despite their accessibility the Petter pumps are a fiddle to remove

Richard

[magpie patrick]

To summarise

Fuel is getting to the cylinders, but it won't fire and I'm an oil pipe short.

I'm on the Thames at Reading and can't stay here too long.

(and the battery is going flat as a result or repeated turning the engine over, but I do have a spare battery) 

[Tony Brooks]

I am afraid that I do not have jump batteries and car parking close enough to boats for tool carrying is a pig so not really practical to help, especially as my wife has a church fundraising fair tomorrow.

Is there anyone on the Thames who can give MP a tow to a safe mooring on the Kennet?

If not I fear you may have to pay up for outside help.

If the rockers and valve on that cylinder are going up and down AND as long as the valve clearances on that cylinder are very similar to those on the front cylinder I doubt anything has seized up. The rocker pivots do not seem to be discoloured so again I doubt they have seized but why it wont start or make smoke I have no idea. Zeta wotsit's idea sounds feasible but!

[RLWP]

Just to add, I'm away for a week from today, so I can't help

Richard

 

MORE: Just a thought. You've got something coming out of the injector pipes. Do we know for sure it is diesel and not, for example, water?

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by RLWP

[magpie patrick]

Don't worry Richard, I knew you were going away. Similarly Tony.

I can get more fire power in the battery department, but am loathe to use it until we have some idea why she won't go.

[RLWP]

And is your diesel, diesel?

[Chewbacka]

Thinking about this, and admitting I don't know this specific engine, but for a diesel to run you need three things.  1) Air in an adequate amount to enter the cylinder, 2) compression to get the air hot enough to ignite the (3) fuel injected at the right moment.

So a suggestion, but best not tried until someone that knows this engine can asses the risk - try spraying some diesel engine 'easy start' up the air intake when it is cranking.  If it runs, obviously stop spraying, but it will confirm there is both air and compression, meaning probably a fuel problem.  If it does not fire, then time to consider if the air supply is restricted (try removing the air filter) or the compression is low.

Stupid idea or worth a try?

[magpie patrick]

14 minutes ago, RLWP said:

And is your diesel, diesel?

Yes it is, as you suggested I test this I loosened the union and held a piece of tissue in the stream. Diesel...

I also found the fingers and rockers don't mix...

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Thinking about this, and admitting I don't know this specific engine, but for a diesel to run you need three things.  1) Air in an adequate amount to enter the cylinder, 2) compression to get the air hot enough to ignite the (3) fuel injected at the right moment.

So a suggestion, but best not tried until someone that knows this engine can asses the risk - try spraying some diesel engine 'easy start' up the air intake when it is cranking.  If it runs, obviously stop spraying, but it will confirm there is both air and compression, meaning probably a fuel problem.  If it does not fire, then time to consider if the air supply is restricted (try removing the air filter) or the compression is low.

Stupid idea or worth a try?

May well not have an air cleaner as such. Often a sturdy inverted bean can thing just kept bits out.

Anything's worth a try but not sure how MP will get Easy start unless the BP garage by Caversham bridge or the Esso/Tesco filling station in Caversham has some.

If you want to try that MP give me a ring so I can pick you up and drive you to Halfords 01189874285

Edited August 4, 2017 by Tony Brooks

[Heffalump]

Good shout Tony, you're closer than I, I was trying to think if there's anything I could do.

MP - Is there a way for you to check that the valves and rockers are moving properly when the engine is turning? Decompression lever and turn by hand if possible to save electrickery

Edited August 4, 2017 by Heffalump

[Chewbacka]

9 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

May well not have an air cleaner as such. Often a sturdy inverted bean can thing just kept bits out.

Anything's worth a try but not sure how MP will get Easy start unless the BP garage by Caversham bridge or the Esso/Tesco filling station in Caversham has some.

If you want to try that MP give me a ring so I can pick you up and drive you to Halfords 01189874285

I was trying to think of a quick and dirty method to help diagnose the fault that does not require compression testers or special tools etc.

[RLWP]

14 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

I was trying to think of a quick and dirty method to help diagnose the fault that does not require compression testers or special tools etc.

A good, reliable test it is too

Richard

[magpie patrick]

Easy start has got it started!

Thanks all, especially Tony for taking me to Halfords. You are a star

[RLWP]

Slow cranking then?

Richard

[Chewbacka]

6 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Slow cranking then?

Richard

Presumably, resulting in low compression so not hot enough to ignite the diesel.

Added - Richard, I know that you know this, but put it in for any others that are following the thread.

If it continues to have a starting problem there is probably a leaky valve or something else causing low compression.  But at least the op knows it is not a fuel or air supply problem

Edited August 4, 2017 by Chewbacka

[rusty69]

Well done to Tony and Chewy 

[Heffalump]

Well done! Must get that lubrication sorted now ha!

[rusty69]

Just now, Heffalump said:

Well done! Must get that lubrication sorted now ha!

I expect he's already poured a large scotch! 

[1st ade]

4 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

If you want to try that MP give me a ring so I can pick you up and drive you to Halfords

Tony - many thanks for helping my younger brother to (once again) get his boat moving - I regret I can award only the one Greenie but if we get to meet; more substantial reward will be on offer...

[WotEver]

6 hours ago, WotEver said:

I presume your fuel is clean with no water?

 

4 hours ago, RLWP said:

Do we know for sure it is diesel and not, for example, water?

 

4 hours ago, RLWP said:

And is your diesel, diesel?

 

3 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

Easy start has got it started!

 Must be then

[Tony Brooks]

I think I would be tempted to run the engine with the rocker cover off but covered with some rag to catch oil mist. Then before starting and every half hour or so squirt some oil onto the rocker pivots and push rod cups.

[MtB]

5 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

Easy start has got it started!

 

In that case it's probably low compression and a knackered engine. particularly if it runs fine once started but is a beach to start. 

If a blowlamp flame up the air intake also makes it start, then I'd say definitely low compression. 

My Gleniffer used to be a bitch to start, but once started ran like a dream.

My compression test during cranking revealed the sort of compression pressures you'd expect on a petrol engine....

[magpie patrick]

Now moored at Theale

Thanks again everyone, each post moved me closer to a solution and also to understanding my engine's innards a little better. This isn't wasted, the new engine is another ST2

Great thanks again to Tony for his help, also to Mike the Boilerman who was willing to turn up after work to help out, by then we were somewhere around Fobney Lock

16 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

In that case it's probably low compression and a knackered engine. particularly if it runs fine once started but is a beach to start. 

If a blowlamp flame up the air intake also makes it start, then I'd say definitely low compression. 

My Gleniffer used to be a bitch to start, but once started ran like a dream.

My compression test during cranking revealed the sort of compression pressures you'd expect on a petrol engine....

Not sure I'll try the blowlamp! 

From my limited knowledge, and from talking to a lot of people, I'd agree on compression being an issue, and the engine is knackered!

[Chewbacka]

Just because the compression is a bit low doesn't mean knackered engine it could be the valve clearance is a bit tight, or one or two of the valve seats need lapping, though that is head off.  Bit more work to do to identify the problem.

[magpie patrick]

Final update: Lutine is now moored above the lock at Aldermaston: she needed Easy Start again yesterday morning but that's hardly surprising, after about five minutes of running she seemed to settle down although my heart was in my mouth once or twice when dropping the revs to change gear - dual lever controls were a godsend!

I'll probably be seeking more advice: I reckon the engine needs to start seven more times to get her home! Will start a new thread for that.