Boat depreciation allowance

[WJM]

Asset depreciation of a steel canal boat - very similar to that of a prestige car, BMW or Mercedes. Residuals: rapid initial fall, then a very slow gradual fall, and almost impossible to reach zero.

 

Edited August 1, 2017 by WJM

[Naughty Cal]

2 minutes ago, Cloudinspector said:

We learned a valuable lesson when we sold our first boat. We needed a quick sale in order to fund the purchase of another boat which I knew wouldn't be around long. We priced the boat at a loss to get a quick sale and were inundated with interest. 

Less than two years later it appeared for sale again and sold for more than we had originally paid for it. A hard and valuable lesson was learned!

But you got the boat that you wanted.

Had you priced it higher you might have lost your next boat.

[Laurie Booth]

1 hour ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

by the way what is a springer?

One of the finest boats ever made

[Athy]

2 hours ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

by the way what is a springer?

A make of narrowboat built between 1969 and 1994, and one of the first "affordable" boats which enabled more people to take to the inland waterways. Cheap, but robust (hence so many of them are still afloat) and making good use of of interior space. Their low cost, slab-sided shape and no-frills design has led to "Springer" sometimes being used to refer to just about any scruffy old narrowboat. True Springers are usually recognisable by their moustache-like barge boards (not sure if that is the correct term) on the bows; not all are scruffy either, as enthusiasts do them up in the same way that car lovers restore plebeian cars such as Morris Minors and Citroen 2CVs.

Look on the web site "Apollo Duck Narrowboats", which lists boats for sale by makers, and you'll see a selection of them, usually ranging from the ooh-cute to the oh-corblimey. At their best, they have considerable charm.

[Detling]

For a boat 57-60 foot 30-35 K is perhaps low, you will probably be looking at a 15+ year old at that and as has been said how well maintained is the key.  We paid 50 K 4 years ago for a 4 year old boat and have spent 8k probably on solar, cratch covers and other upgrades. I would hope to get 50 K for it now, but definitely above 45K

[Neil2]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

As a good 90% of CWDF members have been amongst their number at some point (and some are now), that view may not enjoy great popularity.

Maybe... but do you disagree with it?

[Athy]

29 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

Maybe... but do you disagree with it?

Though I have no great personal experience of boat buyers (do you?) I would, I think, change the "most" to "some". In the pages of this forum, we have seen numerous first-time buyers asking questions covering every aspect of boating before they commit themselves to their initial purchase.

Oh, and I'm relieved that you didn't insert a comma before "ignorant".

[Momac]

I think money invested in the boat is better than money in the bank. The money is not spent but simply converted into boat form.

The boat delivers far more value than can be obtained from even the best  savings account (at present a fraction of a percent interest).

And, as  said , you have to maintain the boat and keep it somewhere. Not a cheap hobby but can become  all-consuming and good value .

 

 

 

[Naughty Cal]

11 hours ago, MartynG said:

I think money invested in the boat is better than money in the bank. The money is not spent but simply converted into boat form.

The boat delivers far more value than can be obtained from even the best  savings account (at present a fraction of a percent interest).

And, as  said , you have to maintain the boat and keep it somewhere. Not a cheap hobby but can become  all-consuming and good value .

 

 

 

A boat is only good value for money if you use it.

Those that sit around for months or years on end with very few visits from their owners and which never leave their berths are certainly not good value for money at all.

[Robbo]

11 hours ago, MartynG said:

I think money invested in the boat is better than money in the bank. The money is not spent but simply converted into boat form.

The boat delivers far more value than can be obtained from even the best  savings account (at present a fraction of a percent interest).

And, as  said , you have to maintain the boat and keep it somewhere. Not a cheap hobby but can become  all-consuming and good value .

 

 

 

If your bank is only giving fractions of percent then shop around, 5% if you have upto £2.5K (current account) If you have more then just savings accounts are over 2%.

[Boat&Bikes]

4 hours ago, Robbo said:

If your bank is only giving fractions of percent then shop around, 5% if you have upto £2.5K (current account) If you have more then just savings accounts are over 2%.

If we are talking about boat sized amounts of money can you please point me in the direction of accounts paying 2% Or do you mean the fixed term accounts? Ian.

[Robbo]

16 minutes ago, ianali said:

If we are talking about boat sized amounts of money can you please point me in the direction of accounts paying 2% Or do you mean the fixed term accounts? Ian.

If you lock in your money in for 5 years you'll get 2.5% at the moment. Tescos do 2% at 5 year, but NS&I do 2.2% at 3 year.  Nationwide do a 5% current account upto £2500, or 2.5% equiv on £6000 (regular saving account at 5% at £500 month).    MoneySavingExpert has an up to date list.   

1.5 - 1.9% at 1 year fixed which is better than the majority of the limited regular savings accounts at 2% which is 1% equivalent!

I tend to do the easy access regular/current accounts to get some decent funding then lock away at yearly intervals (helps me not spend it!), but as I do it yearly I now get a yearly "bonus".

Edited August 2, 2017 by Robbo

[Boat&Bikes]

6 minutes ago, Robbo said:

If you lock in your money in for 5 years you'll get 2.5% at the moment. Tescos do 2% at 5 year, but NS&I do 2.2% at 3 year.  Nationwide do a 5% current account upto £2500, or 2.5% equiv on £6000 (regular saving account at 5% at £500 month).    MoneySavingExpert has an up to date list.   

1.5 - 1.9% at 1 year fixed which is better than the majority of the limited regular savings accounts at 2% which is 1% equivalent!

Thanks for reply. Reluctant to fix as I think rates are starting to rise...have maxed out Santander123 and apart from them just over 1% is about it. Have brought some premium bonds in hope as well.. Oh and we won today! Cheers.

[Robbo]

11 minutes ago, ianali said:

Thanks for reply. Reluctant to fix as I think rates are starting to rise...have maxed out Santander123 and apart from them just over 1% is about it. Have brought some premium bonds in hope as well.. Oh and we won today! Cheers.

Agree, NS&I look to be good at 3 years, 2.2% tho. - Not too long and not to short. + some of the yearly fixed are 1.5% or above like Yorkshire Bank which may be worth it.

One of the reasons I do it yearly (apart from I don't have a large lump sum), is that rates will always rise/fall, so it gives you the best at that time.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Robbo

[Neil2]

20 hours ago, Athy said:

Though I have no great personal experience of boat buyers (do you?) I would, I think, change the "most" to "some". In the pages of this forum, we have seen numerous first-time buyers asking questions covering every aspect of boating before they commit themselves to their initial purchase.

Oh, and I'm relieved that you didn't insert a comma before "ignorant".

I have to admit I am a bit of a tyre kicker at the moment though I hope I don't deliberately waste people's time I have been talking to a lot of boat brokers.  Just a few days ago I was making an enquiry and quizzed the broker why they thought one particular boat had been on the market for a while.  The broker informed me that every single person who had been to view either had no idea about boats or didn't have the money.  Another broker, I explained that I had owned a few boats and had quite a lot of cruising experience and they then proceeded to treat me like a novice who didn't know the first thing, I guessed because that's what they are used to.  Actually I'd go even further and say a high percentage of existing boat owners I talk to know very little about boats or the canal network in general.  That's why I frequent CWDF which I don't think is at all representative of the majority of narrowboaters.    

[Athy]

5 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

I have to admit I am a bit of a tyre kicker at the moment though I hope I don't deliberately waste people's time I have been talking to a lot of boat brokers.  Just a few days ago I was making an enquiry and quizzed the broker why they thought one particular boat had been on the market for a while.  The broker informed me that every single person who had been to view either had no idea about boats or didn't have the money.  Another broker, I explained that I had owned a few boats and had quite a lot of cruising experience and they then proceeded to treat me like a novice who didn't know the first thing, I guessed because that's what they are used to.  Actually I'd go even further and say a high percentage of existing boat owners I talk to know very little about boats or the canal network in general.  That's why I frequent CWDF which I don't think is at all representative of the majority of narrowboaters.    

Interesting comments, thanks.

[Momac]

11 hours ago, Robbo said:

If your bank is only giving fractions of percent then shop around, 5% if you have upto £2.5K (current account) If you have more then just savings accounts are over 2%.

It does  seem like interest rates are moving up a little. I am not locked into any deals at the moment and will wait a little longer.

Nevertheless the boat still beats that in value for money.

11 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

A boat is only good value for money if you use it.

Agreed.  

I have no problem with the people who buy boats and rarely visit their boat and never go anywhere. They are helping keep down traffic on  the waterways while at the same time the marina remains a peaceful place.

 

[RichM]

I have seen many boats advertised for sale far above what they were sold for ~2 years ago. Looking on AD, many boats also seem to be priced above what they were when we bought my boat some 18 months ago now and certainly above the rate of inflation. Is there a reason for this?

[Wanderer Vagabond]

On 8/1/2017 at 13:50, Athy said:

That last statement will surprise some people, but it does appear to be so. I keep an eye on the selling prices of Springers, and they do appear to be generally higher than they were when I bought mine five years ago.

Does that account for inflation? The boat we paid £52000 for 4 years ago should now be worth £56,390 if it is staying up with the current low level of inflation, anything less and it is depreciating.

[Athy]

I am unsure of what you're asking; do you mean "Is that because of inflation"? I suggest that narrowboat prices have risen more quickly than the general rate of inflation, but this suggestion is based on impression, not on a comprehensive study of selling prices.

The only way to discover whether your boat's value has risen would be to put her on the market, which I assume you have no interest in doing, but if you did so I suspect you'd be pleasantly surprised, unless she was brand new four years ago in which case she would probably have depreciated in value.

[Momac]

On the basis of observation of the turnover of boat sales at the marina where I keep my boat it seems to me they are selling like hot cakes. 

Boat values took a hit in the recession. (or at least the ones i take an interest in did). What we may be seeing is a recovery of that - due to supply and demand.

I dont think boat values have generally kept pace with inflation. They may in general keep to a certain value which, as  stated, is in itself depreciation as the value of £1 diminishes.

We have had quite along period of very low inflation. If we had sustained higher inflation we would eventually see used boat values increase.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[frahkn]

11 hours ago, RichM said:

I have seen many boats advertised for sale far above what they were sold for ~2 years ago. Looking on AD, many boats also seem to be priced above what they were when we bought my boat some 18 months ago now and certainly above the rate of inflation. Is there a reason for this?

There is an Orion on AD at the moment, a 66' 2000 boat priced at twice what I paid for my 70' 2003 Orion (5 years ago).

I can only assume that asking prices are much larger than sale prices.

[Athy]

25 minutes ago, frahkn said:

There is an Orion on AD at the moment, a 66' 2000 boat priced at twice what I paid for my 70' 2003 Orion (5 years ago).

I can only assume that asking prices are much larger than sale prices.

I have found it and been duly startled by its asking price.

Why is the asking price so high? Well, the fit-out makes most expensive fit-outs look cheap - it must have cost a fortune in woodwork alone. Add solid-fuel range, Gardner engine, Franco-Belge stove - none of them cheap items - plus a major refit/ replacement of vital organs four years ago, and one begins to see how they arrived at this figure.

On the other hand it's a 17-year old boat offered for a sum which would buy a perfectly decent brand new boat of similar length.

Apart from the interior, what made the strongest impression on me, for all the wrong reasons, was the unctuous commentary from, I assume, an out-of-work estate agent: "Extravagantly practical....a Cathedral of portholes..."...and what, pray, is a "coal shuttle"? Whatever it may be, the boat sports two of them in case one shuttles off and gets lost.

As Frahkn suggests, there can be a chasm between what someone asks for a boat and what they eventually get. I am sure I have seen this video before, and not very recently, so it looks as if 'Oak' hasn't exactly flown off the shelves.

[WotEver]

15 hours ago, MartynG said:

It does  seem like interest rates are moving up a little

Bank of England has just announced the base rate is remaining at 0.25%. 

2 hours ago, Athy said:

what, pray, is a "coal shuttle"?

It's a thing wot olds coal. 

Usually about 3ft high with an extended mouth and two handles on the front, ideal for tipping the coal into that which burns it. 

Otherwise spelt (or spelled if one prefers) scuttle. 

[Athy]

7 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Bank of England has just announced the base rate is remaining at 0.25%. 

It's a thing wot olds coal. 

Usually about 3ft high with an extended mouth and two handles on the front, ideal for tipping the coal into that which burns it. 

Otherwise spelt (or spelled if one prefers) scuttle. 

No, always "scuttle", that is my point.

"Extended mouth" is a fair description of the bloke doing the commentary on that sales video.