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Diesels to be banned


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6 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

There's only one way to reduce emissions from private cars: use them less!

...or reduce the population of energy consuming humans

4 hours ago, KevMc said:

 

I'll get back on my hobby horse for a moment - why oh why are we spending so much and polluting so much just to move bodies around quickly when we have no real need to do so?  

I'm doing my bit by avoiding shopping trips, instead ebay and Amazon provide most of my (technical) requirements.  

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This seems relevant.

Grauniad linky

Even electric cars produce harmful small particles, from brake and tyre dust.

On 8/1/2017 at 18:03, Murflynn said:

ebay and Amazon provide most of my (technical) requirements.

How are they delivered to you though? :D I wonder how pollution saving the method is, taking everything into account?

(Not criticising your method as it must be better, but perhaps not all that much better!)

On 8/1/2017 at 18:03, Murflynn said:

reduce the population of energy consuming humans

Or reduce the energy needs of each individual?

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1 hour ago, Robbo said:

Electric cars tend to have regenerative braking systems so reduce the amount of actual normal braking is used.

If you can accept a slightly worse power consumption - so a bit less range - then if you drop speed limits and then use electric braking when regenerative is not enough you can probably eliminate brake dust.  Also dropping speed limits (less cornering force) and with strict limits on the vehicle design for acceleration and longer life tyre compounds - unfortunately with lower grip, but with lower speed limits, not a problem - then tyre wear and dust should be reduced.  Add in a bit more tax on a per journey basis to reduce vehicle use with improved public transport and and you can probably get to about 10% of current dust levels in cities.  

If brake dust is a problem, makes me wonder how bad the concentration is in the underground tunnels..................

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5 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

How are they delivered to you though? :D I wonder how pollution saving the method is, taking everything into account?

(Not criticising your method as it must be better, but perhaps not all that much better!)

Or reduce the energy needs of each individual?

I was waiting for some smart alec to come up with that one.  :rolleyes:

Driving my gas guzzling 3 litre petrol car to the local retail park, finding the item I want is not on the shelves, then traipsing round to other outlets in the city, can use maybe 2 litres of petrol, just for a 10mm box spanner or 3m of reflective tape (for example).  Result - congestion, pollution, delay, frustration .......

of course multiple deliveries by Hermes or the Royal Mail are MUCH less polluting.

 

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4 hours ago, Robbo said:

Electric cars tend to have regenerative braking systems so reduce the amount of actual normal braking is used.

I posted a Topic on this Forum a few years ago,title was something like "where do Tyres go?" in the U.S.A. something like 65 Thousand Tons of shed Rubber end up on the Highways and in the surrounding Soil.

and a bit of Oil and Diesel.

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1 hour ago, Murflynn said:

I was waiting for some smart alec to come up with that one.  :rolleyes:

Driving my gas guzzling 3 litre petrol car to the local retail park, finding the item I want is not on the shelves, then traipsing round to other outlets in the city, can use maybe 2 litres of petrol, just for a 10mm box spanner or 3m of reflective tape (for example).  Result - congestion, pollution, delay, frustration .......

of course multiple deliveries by Hermes or the Royal Mail are MUCH less polluting.

 

If you can afford time to wait for the Royal Mail or Hermes you don't need to make a special trip in your gas guzzler it can wait until you have more to do and so spread the pollution per item!  Also you might consider something smaller than a gas guzzler.

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On 04/08/2017 at 19:16, Jerra said:

If you can afford time to wait for the Royal Mail or Hermes you don't need to make a special trip in your gas guzzler it can wait until you have more to do and so spread the pollution per item!  Also you might consider something smaller than a gas guzzler.

do you want a 10 minute argument or will the 5 minute one suffice?

can is not the same as do.  .............. and I do not intend to change my lifestyle to suit your theories.

On 26/07/2017 at 03:12, DHutch said:

My 16 year old 3l petrol car is the newest I have owned. I think it will be a while before internal combustion leaves our world. Equally, I think what we consider to be normal will change significantly too. Better get building them nukes!

Daniel

I'm a bad boy.  This weekend I'm swapping my 18 year old 2.8 petrol A6 5 valve Tiptronic for a 10 year old 3.2 A6 FSI Tiptronic Quattro.  Lovely cars.

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On 8/4/2017 at 18:03, Murflynn said:

Driving my gas guzzling 3 litre petrol car to the local retail park,

The item still had to mbe manufactured from raw materials, transported to a shipping warehouse, carried 1/3 of the way around the world in a container ship, unloaded at Felixstowe, taken by diesel lorry to a warehouse, taken by another diesel lorry to a distribution centre, taken by diesel lorry to a superstore before you arrived in your gas guzzler. Or alternatively, carried from the distribution centre to another warehouse (eg DPD or Parcel Force), sent by diesel lorry to the local distribution centre, offloaded into a parcels van, and driven to your door.

I doubt your wonderful Audi makes much difference to the big picture, and driving a Citroen C1 (as I suppose some people do) doesn't make any difference either.    

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26 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

The item still had to mbe manufactured from raw materials, transported to a shipping warehouse, carried 1/3 of the way around the world in a container ship, unloaded at Felixstowe, taken by diesel lorry to a warehouse, taken by another diesel lorry to a distribution centre, taken by diesel lorry to a superstore before you arrived in your gas guzzler. Or alternatively, carried from the distribution centre to another warehouse (eg DPD or Parcel Force), sent by diesel lorry to the local distribution centre, offloaded into a parcels van, and driven to your door.

I doubt your wonderful Audi makes much difference to the big picture, and driving a Citroen C1 (as I suppose some people do) doesn't make any difference either.    

More than likely right which is why they have given a date and are giving local authorities power's to sort pollution 

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1 hour ago, peterboat said:

More than likely right which is why they have given a date and are giving local authorities powers to sort pollution 

If that means the lorries are kept out of town centres and sent to outlying distribution centres, all it does is spread the same amount of pollution more evenly, of course!

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13 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

If that means the lorries are kept out of town centres and sent to outlying distribution centres, all it does is spread the same amount of pollution more evenly, of course!

Except that out of town distribution centres are more likely to be rail served with the trunk haul by rail using 30% of the diesel that HGVs would use and some being electric hauled which can use renewables.

George

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2 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

The item still had to mbe manufactured from raw materials, transported to a shipping warehouse, carried 1/3 of the way around the world in a container ship, unloaded at Felixstowe, taken by diesel lorry to a warehouse, taken by another diesel lorry to a distribution centre, taken by diesel lorry to a superstore before you arrived in your gas guzzler. Or alternatively, carried from the distribution centre to another warehouse (eg DPD or Parcel Force), sent by diesel lorry to the local distribution centre, offloaded into a parcels van, and driven to your door.

I doubt your wonderful Audi makes much difference to the big picture, and driving a Citroen C1 (as I suppose some people do) doesn't make any difference either.    

it does make a difference to me - cost wise.

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1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

If that means the lorries are kept out of town centres and sent to outlying distribution centres, all it does is spread the same amount of pollution more evenly, of course!

there are 2 distinct types of pollution - the one especially concerning diesels is NOx which is dangerous when the vehicles travel on congested roads (think start-stop) in proximity to vulnerable people (especially children and old folk); the noxious gas and particles build up before the wind has a chance to blow it all to the four points of the compass, so spreading it more evenly is a GOOD THING.

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33 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

on BBC news this morning - forget cows and sheep, use mealworms for your protein.  10 times as efficient so the carbon (and farting) footprint will be much less.

eat worms, no need to go electric - keep your BMW 535d.  everybody's happy :cheers:

 

Which is of course, why mealworms are so called. 

As any fule kno.

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The questions that spring to my mind are The oil company's & their lobbyists are going to give the Gov of the day a hard time & said Gov are going to be a good few "Bob' down in the taxes collected on fuel so are they going to 'screw' the 'leccy' to make up their tax short fall & will the vehicle excise/road tax be imposed on 'leccy' powered  vehicles as they will have a reduced number of fossil fueled 'jobbies' to screw.

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4 hours ago, X Alan W said:

The questions that spring to my mind are The oil company's & their lobbyists are going to give the Gov of the day a hard time & said Gov are going to be a good few "Bob' down in the taxes collected on fuel so are they going to 'screw' the 'leccy' to make up their tax short fall & will the vehicle excise/road tax be imposed on 'leccy' powered  vehicles as they will have a reduced number of fossil fueled 'jobbies' to screw.

Taxes on fuel will be replaced by a road charging system, which is where the tax should have been put a long time ago.

George

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20 hours ago, Murflynn said:

so spreading it more evenly is a GOOD THING.

So it affects more people, but at lower concentrations. Thanks for that!

Do we know how low a safe concentration of particles might be?

The usual trade-off for any dose-response health relationship. Do we reduce the problem for the most affected people, if it causes potentially lesser problems (but not zero problems) for many others?

6 hours ago, Murflynn said:

keep your BMW 535d.  everybody's happy

Other penis substitutes are available.

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On 31/07/2017 at 15:45, Alan de Enfield said:

And - starting today we can find locations, get 'planning permission, build, pay for and commission a new nuclear power station every 2 years for the next 20 years.

I'd suggest that no Government of any 'colour' could achieve that.

Perhaps they might have to re-start Ferrybridge . . . 

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while searching for a replacement car recently I was amazed to find nearly all the second hand cars on the market are diesels, especially the German ones, and the choice of new cars with petrol engines is very limited.

reviews by Auto Express typically say - get the petrol engine, no dual mass flywheel, no turbo, no DPF to worry about.  I recently road-tested a diesel Audi that had a reconditioned engine and new turbo, DMF and DPF fitted by the dealer after he had picked up the car for a song - broken engine.

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1 hour ago, Murflynn said:

reviews by Auto Express typically say - get the petrol engine, no dual mass flywheel, no turbo, no DPF to worry about.

Many new petrol engined vehicles now come with dual mass flywheels and turbo's.

The trend is to use use small, 3 cylinder turbocharged petrol engines, and the DMF's are needed to smooth out the vibrations,  just like they are needed to smooth out vibrations on diesels.

Of course the dealer also gets mucho business replacing them when they fail.

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2 hours ago, Murflynn said:

while searching for a replacement car recently I was amazed to find nearly all the second hand cars on the market are diesels, especially the German ones, and the choice of new cars with petrol engines is very limited.

reviews by Auto Express typically say - get the petrol engine, no dual mass flywheel, no turbo, no DPF to worry about.  I recently road-tested a diesel Audi that had a reconditioned engine and new turbo, DMF and DPF fitted by the dealer after he had picked up the car for a song - broken engine.

I'm going from one "German" diesel PD engine/DPF the worst combination but no problems in my ownership of2.5years and 55000 miles (188000miles in total) to another "German" diesel CR with DPF / DMF and the horrid EA189 emmisions mod which will be removed when its remapped........Oh the old one was an Octavia Vrs the new one is a Yeti 4x4. Octy did 50mpg with ease and was quick, just couldn't afford to run a petrol car with the mileage I do and as for electric I can't afford a Tesla which is the only one with a decent range. I often do 250mile each way trips and most electric cars would need 2 recharges to do one way.

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