Diesels to be banned

[DHutch]

4 hours ago, Murflynn said:

BBC news this morning - an 'expert' stated that hybrid cars will still be sold, so the proposals are not that revolutionary; in fact, that being the case, why don't they bring in the rules within 10 years?  -  as everyone says, the car industry is ready and hybrids don't present an infrastructure problem.

Well yes, if like Volvo 'only electric cars' includes hybrids then the story becomes woefully less exciting.

4 hours ago, Neil2 said:

Has anyone seen the actual government proposals?  All I can find is press reports, but there was mention of the careful inserting of the word "conventional" when referring to petrol/diesel vehicles.  It's the usual government spin to make us think they are doing something totally radical when in fact this is the way the industry is heading anyway. 

So yes, all spin then?

[furnessvale]

15 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

Aren't petrol engines LEZ compliant anyway?  Do you mean congestion zone exemption?

Sorry, wrong zone.  You are correct!

George

[mayalld]

4 hours ago, Psycloud said:

Not sure if it's been said already but regarding moving goods, in 30 years time we probably won't move very much by road/rail other than food and clothing.  3D printers will be commonplace and pretty much all media will be digitally transmitted.

Not sure that you've thought this through.

Even if everything is produced from 3D printers, such devices don't create things out of thin air.

The plastic that the printer is going to use to make something will still need to be shipped.

 

[Psycloud]

6 minutes ago, mayalld said:

Not sure that you've thought this through.

Even if everything is produced from 3D printers, such devices don't create things out of thin air.

The plastic that the printer is going to use to make something will still need to be shipped.

 

True - although let's not rule out electric drone delivery as the norm by then.

[KevMc]

17 minutes ago, mayalld said:

Not sure that you've thought this through.

Even if everything is produced from 3D printers, such devices don't create things out of thin air.

The plastic that the printer is going to use to make something will still need to be shipped.

 

Well ... as plastic is created from oil, how long before we can pipe crude oil into the home (or locality) and refine it into plastic making.

Or we could recycle existing plastics

[cuthound]

7 hours ago, Robbo said:

That wasn’t a self driving car.

True, but the car was in autonomous mode and driver wasn't paying attention, so didn't intervene. 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-crash-idUKKBN19A2XC

The Tesla system was cleared, on the tenuous grounds that it didn't cover all situations likey to occur on the road.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/business/tesla-model-s-autopilot-fatal-crash.html

[Robbo]

6 minutes ago, cuthound said:

True, but the car was in autonomous mode and driver wasn't paying attention, so didn't intervene. 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-crash-idUKKBN19A2XC

The Tesla system was cleared, on the tenuous grounds that it didn't cover all situations likey to occur on the road.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/business/tesla-model-s-autopilot-fatal-crash.html

The Tesla autopilot isn't designed to be self driving, it doesn't have the sensors needed for it.  Kinda worse name ever as people think that it is self driving!

[cuthound]

3 minutes ago, Robbo said:

The Tesla autopilot isn't designed to be self driving, it doesn't have the sensors needed for it.  Kinda worse name ever as people think that it is self driving!

So what is it designed to do if not drive the car? 

[Robbo]

Just now, cuthound said:

So what is it designed to do if not drive the car? 

Assist.

[cuthound]

6 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Assist.

Stupid system, neither one thing nor the other. As evidenced it leads to complacency and accidents. 

Better to be fully autonomous or fully manual for major driver inputs.

[Robbo]

2 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Stupid system, neither one thing nor the other. As evidenced it leads to complacency and accidents. 

Better to be fully autonomous or fully manual for major driver inputs.

Agree, it's a stupid name as it implies it's self driving.   The system itself does detect if you let go of the wheel tho.

[LadyG]

Get a grip here folks: video phones were mooted 20 years ago, Beta was better quality than VHS, and pagers were seen as the way to go.

Portable computers in 1980 were the size of Singer Sewing machines, and cost abour £3500, a few years before that, someone realised transistors were the future,  Babbage had a differential moment in 1895!

My first computer was a Dragon , and my b/f bought one from Tandy [£2000], he wrote a hangman program and sold it for £1.00 a copy, one had to write it out as there were no floppy disks!

I wrote a basic program which formed a circle. 01101000001101000 and so on..................

Everyone played with a bat and ball , on a tv screen, monochrome.

Edited July 27, 2017 by LadyG

[LadyG]

On 26/07/2017 at 08:52, Tawny75 said:

I was just about to say the same thing! 

I agree with what others are saying, other forms of energy are advancing at an amazing rate, but if they wont electrify the entire rail network they can hardly expect all cars to be electric.

Exactly.

Him indoors is a truck driver, as he says, if they want less diesel trucks on the road then we all need to stop buying stuff.

No.............. every parcel will be delivered from the factory by H powered drones. We wont need lorry drivers, in fact all roads and motorways will be pedestrianised, the countryside will be returned to the bumpkins, and City dwellers wil be kettled inside the M25

Edited July 27, 2017 by LadyG

[LadyG]

On 26/07/2017 at 11:11, system 4-50 said:

There will be a long transition period where you can run existing nasty engines but are not allowed to buy new ones. So buy yourself a couple of spare new diesel engines now and store them under the bed until you need them, together with the pots of real paint and other discontinued items. 

Would anyone like to buy a dozen boxes of Osram lightbulbs, 100 watt, pearlised, very rare..............., and a box of Bryant and Mayes matches, mint condition.

Edited July 27, 2017 by LadyG

[cuthound]

26 minutes ago, LadyG said:

No.............. every parcel will be delivered from the factory by H powered drones. We wont need lorry drivers, in fact all roads and motorways will be pedestrianised, the countryside will be returned to the bumpkins, and City dwellers wil be kettled inside the M25

And people will drive camper vans on the motorways,  stopping at pleasant spots on the hard shoulder for up to 14 days, to avoid the Canal,  River and Motorway Trust enforcement officers from "section 8ing" their vehicles 

[mross]

1 hour ago, Robbo said:

Agree, it's a stupid name as it implies it's self driving.   The system itself does detect if you let go of the wheel tho.

 

[Dr Bob]

5 hours ago, LadyG said:

Would anyone like to buy a dozen boxes of Osram lightbulbs, 100 watt, pearlised, very rare..............., and a box of Bryant and Mayes matches, mint condition.

I've got a load of 100w bulbs as well. Seemed a good idea 5 years ago. All the bulbs in the house are LED now. Never thought the old ones would become redundant - and I mean 'never use again' so quickly.

I think things will look a lot different in 2040.......but there will still be loads of diesel around to buy.

 

[Dr Bob]

8 hours ago, KevMc said:

Well ... as plastic is created from oil, how long before we can pipe crude oil into the home (or locality) and refine it into plastic making.

Or we could recycle existing plastics

Did you know that to make 1te of plastic (lets assume it is Polyethylene or Polypropylene) you either start with ethane as a raw material or naptha. To make plastic from ethane you make about 1.5tes CO2 per tonne of plastic or for naptha you make about 3tes Co2 per tonne plastic. At the last count I think we were making circa 1.5 million tonnes of plastic in the UK (Grangemouth, Teeside) but not sure what is now made at Carrington. Therefore just to make plastic in the UK we are making circa 3 Million tonnes of CO2. CO2 from cars is not THE big Co2 emitter.

Coal power stations emitt 3tes of CO2 per tonne of coal burnt (approx) - and similar from gas power stations. Millions and millions of tonnes of CO2.

The French called it right 30 years ago and settled on a nueclear power strategy - far, far less emissions.

KevMc is right, we should recycle existing plastics. Why therefore do we only recycle 5%? Some local authorities collect nearly 80% of plastic waste .......but it either goes to landfill or gets burnt or goes to Netherlands or china where it gets burnt.

Stop burning coal and stop burning gas in power plants, industrial plants etc and we can all keep running our diesel engines.

 

[MtB]

On 27/07/2017 at 23:22, Dr Bob said:

Did you know that to make 1te of plastic (lets assume it is Polyethylene or Polypropylene) you either start with ethane as a raw material or naptha. To make plastic from ethane you make about 1.5tes CO2 per tonne of plastic or for naptha you make about 3tes Co2 per tonne plastic.

 

Now that's a unit I've never heard of. What is a 'te' please?

Many thanks...

[Dr Bob]

8 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Now that's a unit I've never heard of. What is a 'te' please?

Many thanks...

Mike, "te" is the shortened version of "tonne", a metric ton = 1000Kg. That's what everyone in the refinery/chemicals business uses. Apologies for using metric units on here! 

 

[Athy]

12 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Mike, "te" is the shortened version of "tonne", a metric ton = 1000Kg. That's what everyone in the refinery/chemicals business uses. Apologies for using metric units on here! 

 

Yes, it stopped some of us in our tracks.

Everything stops for te, as the saying goes.

[Murflynn]

I will never understand why folk feel the need to use the words 'metric tonne' (or even worse an abbreviation thereof) instead of ton or tonne when discussing round numbers like 1 million.

The difference between ton and tonne is 35lbs in old money, about 1.5%, so for gross approximations like we are discussing here there is no need to distinguish between the two.

Interesting figures about CO2, but the current issue is about noxious (NOx - pun intended) emissions.   Dr Bob's assertion 'Stop burning coal and stop burning gas in power plants, industrial plants etc and we can all keep running our diesel engines' disregards this and totally misses the point.

Regarding CO2 I just calculated that 20 million cars covering 10,000km/annum with a CO2 emission of 150g/km will emit 3million tonnes of CO2.  So cars emit about the same amount as the plastics industry - not insignificant but also not by far the largest emitter.

 

 

 

[WotEver]

26 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

I will never understand why folk feel the need to use the words 'metric tonne' (or even worse an abbreviation thereof) instead of ton or tonne when discussing round numbers like 1 million.

Agreed. If you want to use an abbreviation just use T. 

[Jerra]

48 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Mike, "te" is the shortened version of "tonne", a metric ton = 1000Kg. That's what everyone in the refinery/chemicals business uses. Apologies for using metric units on here! 

 

Fascinating.  I have been using metric since we were supposed to have changed over in 1974 and I have never seen it abbreviated as anything other than T ot t.  Of course if the UK hadn't been so stick in the mud and clung on to imperial measurement like grim death then there would be no confusion.

[MtB]

On 28/07/2017 at 08:01, Dr Bob said:

Mike, "te" is the shortened version of "tonne", a metric ton = 1000Kg. That's what everyone in the refinery/chemicals business uses. Apologies for using metric units on here! 

 

 

Ok thanks...

I'd ruled that out before asking as your post also used "tonnes" as units so I concluded they were something different..! 

E.G.

"Coal power stations emitt 3tes of CO2 per tonne of coal burnt (approx) "

Thing is, I know from experience this SI system loves to randomly introduce new units unexpectedly. I'm beginning to notice gas pressures stated in Pascals!

Edited July 28, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman