Disillusioned

[markeymark]

Hi, I have paid for a boat but as yet I do not have the keys to it. I called the CRT to licence it and asked them to licence it from August (next week). However they insisted that because I had paid for the boat that I pay for it to be licensed from July. It also licensed in the name of the vendor for the whole of July so this means that CRT gain 2 amounts of money for July. Can this be legal? Before I have even sailed away into the sunset...or cloud as it it presently is I am disillusioned and thinking of selling the boat.

[mross]

Ask the vendor if the existing license has already been cancelled.  If not, then ask for the sale to be voided until 1st August and then re-purchase.

[mrsmelly]

3 minutes ago, markeymark said:

Hi, I have paid for a boat but as yet I do not have the keys to it. I called the CRT to licence it and asked them to licence it from August (next week). However they insisted that because I had paid for the boat that I pay for it to be licensed from July. It also licensed in the name of the vendor for the whole of July so this means that CRT gain 2 amounts of money for July. Can this be legal? Before I have even sailed away into the sunset...or cloud as it it presently is I am disillusioned and thinking of selling the boat.

HI

you made the mistake of being honest. You should have said you were paying for it on august first if you wished to avoid this position. Its the same with cars now which is why the government brought it in because they get double the tax in the month that each car is bought and sold this is the only reason its been changed this way, same with boat. You will love boating but remember its going to cost a bomb anyway.

[MtB]

On 24/07/2017 at 10:19, markeymark said:

Hi, I have paid for a boat but as yet I do not have the keys to it. I called the CRT to licence it and asked them to licence it from August (next week). However they insisted that because I had paid for the boat that I pay for it to be licensed from July. It also licensed in the name of the vendor for the whole of July so this means that CRT gain 2 amounts of money for July. Can this be legal? Before I have even sailed away into the sunset...or cloud as it it presently is I am disillusioned and thinking of selling the boat.

 

The way to find out if this is legal, is I suspect, to challenge this decision by applying for a Judicial Review. Expensive and time consuming but to some people the principle is more important than the time and money. 

CRT have been doing this for about a year now and the way around it is to buy your boat on the first day of the month. IO think there might be an argument that although you have paid the money, your purchase is not yet complete as you have not taken possession therefore the seller is still responsible for licencing.

 

[croftie]

Exactly the same happens with DVLA when you buy a car,

[MtB]

I think the point of it is not to stiff you for the extra month, but to prevent transfer of a licence with the boat. This means the new owner has to sign the T&Cs right from the start, so he cannot claim he knew nothing about them as the boat already had a licence. 

[WotEver]

3 minutes ago, mross said:

Ask the vendor if the existing license has already been cancelled.  If not, then ask for the sale to be voided until 1st August and then re-purchase.

The problem with that is that the vendor will lose a month of license refund if he leaves it to the 1st to cancel. OP made the mistake of telling CaRT that he's bought a boat. He should have said that he'll be buying a boat on 1st August so can they please license it from then. Easier still, leave it till 1st August before even applying. 

[mross]

But how can the vendor get a refund for July when that month had already started when the sale was made?

[WotEver]

12 minutes ago, markeymark said:

I am disillusioned and thinking of selling the boat.

Good grief! If a month's extra license fee is going to knock you back so far as to want to sell the boat I would suggest that you sell it now and pick a different hobby. You will find much bigger expenses than that as time progresses. 

1 minute ago, mross said:

But how can the vendor get a refund for July when that month had already started when the sale was made?

He can't. And if he doesn't sell until 1st August then he can't get a refund for that month either. 

[peterboat]

Tell them the boat is out of water being blacked and wont be put back in until after the first of the month problem sorted

[WotEver]

Just now, peterboat said:

Tell them the boat is out of water being blacked and wont be put back in until after the first of the month problem sorted

Until they sight it. 

[MtB]

Exactly. Vendor cancels on last day of month. Buyer starts new licence on first of next month. 

Is this so difficult?!

[WotEver]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

Exactly. Vendor cancels on last day of month. Buyer starts new licence on first of next month. 

Is this so difficult?!

OP has now made it more difficult for himself by telling CaRT that he's bought it. 

[john6767]

As has been said there is no difference to this as that what happens when you buy a car, so don't get disillusioned about it!  From where you are right now the simplest is just to pay up for the licence and get on with enjoying the boat, in the big picture it is a small cost.

Edited July 24, 2017 by john6767

[MtB]

On 24/07/2017 at 10:19, markeymark said:

I am disillusioned and thinking of selling the boat.

 

When you sell it, think very carefully about when to cancel the licence 

[mrsmelly]

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

When you sell it, think very carefully about when to cancel the licence 

Norty

[croftie]

I suspect the only "legal" way is if the boat is on the hard at the end of the month. The current owner turns in his licence near end of month, new owner licences at the same time (end of July) to run from 1st August stating the boat is currently out of the water. That way the new owner gets the early payment discount.

[WotEver]

Just now, john6767 said:

As has been said there is no difference to this as that what happens when you buy a car, so don't get disillusioned about it!  From where you are right now the simplest is just to pay up for the licence and get on with enjoying the boat, is the big picture it is a small cost.

Absolutely. 

 

When my mum passed away I contacted DVLA to tell them that I had her car and needed to have a few repairs done prior to selling it but didn't want to do a transfer of ownership for just a month or two as it was at that time a 'one lady owner' vehicle with ridiculously low mileage. Guy at DVLA gave me his name and department and told me not to worry about it and said he'd refund the balance of the RFL on the car, but simply asked me not to 'take the piss' while it was, effectively, without a RFL. Interestingly I couldn't insure it short term with a standalone policy as I wasn't the registered keeper, but I could add it to my own policy for 60 days. 

1 minute ago, croftie said:

I suspect the only "legal" way is if the boat is on the hard at the end of the month. The current owner turns in his licence near end of month, new owner licences at the same time (end of July) to run from 1st August stating the boat is currently out of the water. That way the new owner gets the early payment discount.

Yup, works for me

good opportunity to get the blacking/antifoul done. 

[Neil2]

It's a glitch of the new system which as others have said affects cars the same way.  But a lot of cars will be sold through dealers where the previous owner will have cashed in the tax some time before the new sale.  The problem with boats is if they are on the water they must be licenced.  Having said that, we bought a boat last year that was on a marina but the licence had expired - the then owner clearly didn't want to license a boat that he hope he would sell quickly.  He got away with it, presumably others do.

It is a curious feature of boat ownership that owners frequently throw up their hands in horror at insignificant sums when we all know it is an inherently expensive business. On our marina most of us will be paying well over £2000 a year berthing fees and there are five figure cars in the car park but the biggest talking point for some months now is the imposition of a £1 charge for using the elsan sluice.  

[WotEver]

3 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

It is a curious feature of boat ownership that owners frequently throw up their hands in horror at insignificant sums when we all know it is an inherently expensive business. On our marina most of us will be paying well over £2000 a year berthing fees and there are five figure cars in the car park but the biggest talking point for some months now is the imposition of a £1 charge for using the elsan sluice

[springy]

If you need to licence a boat part way through a month consider buying a shorter term licence initially - I'm not sure for other lengths, but for a 47ft a 3 month licence without  prompt payment discount followed by  a 12 month with prompt payment actually works out about £3 month cheaper than the monthly equivalent of a 12 month without prompt payment discount, not a fortune and this also ignores the value of the "part month" lost but you've already lost that anyway.

 

springy

[LadyG]

Explain that you meant to apply for licencefrom August 1st in orderto get the early payment discount.

Scoundrels.

[croftie]

If you apply for a new licence with C&rt before your current licence expires you get a 10% discount. So if your current licence expires 31 July and you pay for a 12 month one to start 1st August on say 30 July then you get the discount. Buy it on the 2nd of August you pay the full fee.

If your boat is out of the water on the hard and you intend to launch it in August then buy your licence end of July to run from 1st August and get the discount

[Alan de Enfield]

36 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Explain that you meant to apply for licencefrom August 1st in orderto get the early payment discount.

Scoundrels.

Have you given up looking for  boat ?

Have you sold the house yet ?

I'll give you a wave as we pass you (Aberdeen) towards the end of August

[alan_fincher]

So are we saying that anybody who buys a boat mid month, and wants it licensed from the point they buy it has no way of securing the 10% prompt payment discount?

I haven't been and checked chapter and verse, but that sounds a bit unfair if true.