EA moorings BS

[Lily Rose]

3 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

I'm not after, 'getting my monies worth'. But we entered the Thames midday yesterday 19th. Paid for a week. License states departure midnight 25th. To me, unless I've really lost the plot, is I'm a day short. We may well leave within a week so it may not be relevant. 

We paid for two weeks on the Avon, once again I felt I was a day short,so I may be 'doing it wrong' or I'm gullible.

My experience (1st time on a river)...

Entered the Thames via Dukes Cut yesterday afternoon, turned upstream for one mile and wild moored for the night. No lock, no licence, no farmer demand for mooring fee.

This morning, the 20th, back downstream and bought a 7 day licence at Kings Lock. The expiry is shown as 26/7/17.

The lock keeper confirmed that the expiry is midnight at the end of the 26th hence I get 7 days including the day of purchase.

Coincidentally I am now moored immediately behind Nightwatch at East Street moorings. I can also confirm that the TVM website was unable to register my arrival here.

No matter, I'll be leaving tomorrow morning. Last time I checked these moorings were full. We got here about 12.30.

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, OldGoat said:

I studiously avoided anything about the date written on the licence....

I tried again (more info from TL) -

The effective two days ONLY applies to a one day licence. I think they just put the next day's date on the licence. (forgot to ask). I seem to recall that some years ago there was a fuss about folks feeling short changed so the terms were changed so that it expires at midnight on the day following.

ALL the others expire exactly  7 days (whatever) after  you buy it. No" bonus". 

 

So from the above the expiry date written is the expiry date.

 

That is correct its been amusing watching people trying to reinterpret the rules

[john6767]

29 minutes ago, MrBeethoven said:

My experience (1st time on a river)...

Entered the Thames via Dukes Cut yesterday afternoon, turned upstream for one mile and wild moored for the night. No lock, no licence, no farmer demand for mooring fee.

This morning, the 20th, back downstream and bought a 7 day licence at Kings Lock. The expiry is shown as 26/7/17.

The lock keeper confirmed that the expiry is midnight at the end of the 26th hence I get 7 days including the day of purchase.

Coincidentally I am now moored immediately behind Nightwatch at East Street moorings. I can also confirm that the TVM website was unable to register my arrival here.

No matter, I'll be leaving tomorrow morning. Last time I checked these moorings were full. We got here about 12.30.

That it what I thought, it expires at midnight on the date that is on the licence, ie the end of that day.

[john6767]

While we have the experts here, what is the expected procedure if you want 2 weeks on the Thames.

Can you;

1.  buy the 2 weeks up front, at a cost of 2 times a 1 week licence and have it dated appropriate, ie if bought today it would be dated 02/08/17

2. buy 1 week and then when that runs out buy a second week, in which case is it allowable to let the first licence expire at midnight on 26/07/17 and then buy a new one at the first lock on the 27th which would then be dated 02/08/17

[OldGoat]

Reporting back.

Trying to make some 'organizational' sense out of the apparent inconsistency between the STLs, I rang around the system. Most locks did not answer, but one realloy knew his onions.

• The answer is that there is a two day licence - not mentioned on the publication I quoted earlier.
• It's the same price as a one day licence so that's what gets issued with the expiry dated the next day
• Sooo - you get a licence that follows all the other rules, seven, fourteen etc   

Somewhat infuriating that TL didn't mention that to me...

[OldGoat]

23 minutes ago, john6767 said:

While we have the experts here, what is the expected procedure if you want 2 weeks on the Thames.

Can you;

1.  buy the 2 weeks up front, at a cost of 2 times a 1 week licence and have it dated appropriate, ie if bought today it would be dated 02/08/17

2. buy 1 week and then when that runs out buy a second week, in which case is it allowable to let the first licence expire at midnight on 26/07/17 and then buy a new one at the first lock on the 27th which would then be dated 02/08/17

It used to be that you could only buy a licence from a lock near to where you came onto the River (King's, Caversham, Shepperton for example) or 'nearby' as it's for genuine visitors from other waterways, not for folks who duck under the radar. However, I couldn't find any documentation stating that.

I guess that if the two licence periods ran together a reasonable lockie would accept that but not if there was a gap  between the two (which could be the case if you popped down the K&A / Wey as a side trip).

One has to ask - why would you want to do as you propose?

[john6767]

15 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

It used to be that you could only buy a licence from a lock near to where you came onto the River (King's, Caversham, Shepperton for example) or 'nearby' as it's for genuine visitors from other waterways, not for folks who duck under the radar. However, I couldn't find any documentation stating that.

I guess that if the two licence periods ran together a reasonable lockie would accept that but not if there was a gap  between the two (which could be the case if you popped down the K&A / Wey as a side trip).

One has to ask - why would you want to do as you propose?

I wanted to have 2 weeks, but the lock keeper at Osney lock would not sell me one, he said you can have 1 day, 1 week or 1 month and that is it.  So I had to buy 1 week and then buy the second week from a lock when that one had run out.  I just seems silly to me that I could not just buy the 2 weeks i initially paging twice the cost of a 1 week licence. 

I guess the other reason fro 2. would be if your plans changed and you wanted to stay longer.

[Nightwatch]

21 minutes ago, john6767 said:

I wanted to have 2 weeks, but the lock keeper at Osney lock would not sell me one, he said you can have 1 day, 1 week or 1 month and that is it.  So I had to buy 1 week and then buy the second week from a lock when that one had run out.  I just seems silly to me that I could not just buy the 2 weeks i initially paging twice the cost of a 1 week licence. 

I guess the other reason fro 2. would be if your plans changed and you wanted to stay longer.

On the Avon recently a week was £50, the second week was £10 totalling £60 in all.

[OldGoat]

21 minutes ago, john6767 said:

I wanted to have 2 weeks, but the lock keeper at Osney lock would not sell me one, he said you can have 1 day, 1 week or 1 month and that is it.  So I had to buy 1 week and then buy the second week from a lock when that one had run out.  I just seems silly to me that I could not just buy the 2 weeks i initially paging twice the cost of a 1 week licence. 

I guess the other reason fro 2. would be if your plans changed and you wanted to stay longer.

As a 'concerned' Thames boater - I'm sorry about that. There used to be some restrictions on multiples you could buy in a year - but the charges document I found on the web made no reference to that. It's now governed by the pricing structure! The Lockie may have been misinformed. It may have been a relief as there's no resident yet appointed (well their wasn't one in early June when we passed by) and the reliefs are not always up to date.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

On the Avon recently a week was £50, the second week was £10 totalling £60 in all.

We are off up to the Scottish Canals - their charges put the EA ones into perspective :

 

Charges per metre of boat length ;

Scottish Canals

60 days* £54.25

30 days £42.05

 2 weeks  £30.00

So, a 2-week licence for a 15 metre boat would cost £450

Or you can buy a 7-day 'Transit' canal specific licence which (as an example) for the Caledonian Canal is £20.10 / metre.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Alan de Enfield

[john6767]

5 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

As a 'concerned' Thames boater - I'm sorry about that. There used to be some restrictions on multiples you could buy in a year - but the charges document I found on the web made no reference to that. It's now governed by the pricing structure! The Lockie may have been misinformed. It may have been a relief as there's no resident yet appointed (well their wasn't one in early June when we passed by) and the reliefs are not always up to date.

 

This was about 3 years ago, so possibly it has changed a bit now.  Hopefully next time I will have the time to have a month, but it would be nice to know that if I did want 2 weeks I should be able to have that.

I was able to have 2 weeks from the EA for the Nene last summer, although I can see that is a bit different as you do not keep doing through maned locks where you can buy licences, so you really have to get it all up front.

[Nightwatch]

54 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

We are off up to the Scottish Canals - their charges put the EA ones into perspective :

 

Charges per metre of boat length ;

Scottish Canals

60 days* £54.25

30 days £42.05

 2 weeks  £30.00

So, a 2-week licence for a 15 metre boat would cost £450

Or you can buy a 7-day 'Transit' canal specific licence which (as an example) for the Caledonian Canal is £20.10 / metre.

As I say,apparently annoyingly, when looking at pricelist outside eateries, "That's not cheap"!

[frangar]

I brought two weeks straight off just before Easter. The nice lady at kings lock didn't bat an eyelid when I asked for two weeks. She had a card machine too. 

 

[Lily Rose]

7 minutes ago, frangar said:

I brought two weeks straight off just before Easter. The nice lady at kings lock didn't bat an eyelid when I asked for two weeks. She had a card machine too. 

 

The  male lock keeper I bought mine from at Kings Lock quoted various prices to work out the best VFM and seemed to be indicating that I could buy a 2 week licence had I wanted to. I was able to pay by credit card (not Amex though, which is par for the course).

There was a list of locks to buy from but he confirmed that you could buy from any lock but might have to wait a while at the busier locks further downstream as, not surprisingly, they prioritise getting boats through.

[Drayke]

10 hours ago, Paringa said:

These are new - well new to me - if the map is correct they are opposite Uris old place on the Thames Path yes? The ones I was thinking of are opposite to these just down from his house. 

Still, on the bright side there are now moorings  where there were previously only no mooring signs...

I think you are reading this map wrong, if you look at the lock the moorings are above it not below, so just after the lock on the left-hand side going up river.

[Paringa]

You are correct. My mistake, should have checked.

So we still don't know exactly the details for moorings below the lock...

 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Paringa

[Athy]

5 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

As I say,apparently annoyingly, when looking at pricelist outside eateries, "That's not cheap"!

The correct expression, which I use, is "OW Mooch???"

This can be used also when inspecting the goods for sale on the Reduced To Clear shelf of a supermarket, when it should be followed by "They're all 'eart".

[Steilsteven]

23 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

We are off up to the Scottish Canals - their charges put the EA ones into perspective :

 

Charges per metre of boat length ;

Scottish Canals

60 days* £54.25

30 days £42.05

 2 weeks  £30.00

So, a 2-week licence for a 15 metre boat would cost £450

Or you can buy a 7-day 'Transit' canal specific licence which (as an example) for the Caledonian Canal is £20.10 / metre.

Those fees are insane! Perhaps you should go to France instead.

 

Vignette Navigation Fees and VNF Offices

Using the French navigable waterways network involves paying a fee – and then displaying the vignette licence on the boat.

• NAVIGATION FEES
• VNF Offices

Licence (Vignette) Fees 2017

Navigation fees are simply based on boat length. The vignette certificate should be displayed at the front of the boat, on the starboard side.

VIGNETTE DURATION	To 8m length	8m to 11m	11m to 14m	14m +
Year (Jan-Dec)	8.30€/m +85.80€	8.30€/m +196.90€	8.30€/m +375.10€	8.30€/m +489.70€
Month (30 days)	7.40€/m +27.20€	7.40€/m +39.60€	7.40€/m +51.90€	7.40€/m +66.30€
Week (7 days)	3.80€/m +15.00€	3.80€/m +22.80€	3.80€/m +30.30€	3.80€/m +37.70€

  A 15 metre boat could have a month for 177.30 euros

Keith

[OldGoat]

18 hours ago, Paringa said:

You are correct. My mistake, should have checked.

So we still don't know exactly the details for moorings below the lock...

 

I say again -

The length of moorings below the lock from the bend (this is going upstream) that used to be available by the kindness of Mr. Geller now have (well they did in May) No Mooring signs. Past Uri's house there are several moorings that - I assume - are let out, or suffered by the various  house owners. The pub ('cos that's what it really is) has spaces for a couple of boats "by arrangement". The moorings - not being EA are not managed by TVM, though he might like to do so at some future time.

 

[Steilsteven]

3 hours ago, OldGoat said:

I say again -

The length of moorings below the lock from the bend (this is going upstream) that used to be available by the kindness of Mr. Geller now have (well they did in May) No Mooring signs. Past Uri's house there are several moorings that - I assume - are let out, or suffered by the various  house owners. The pub ('cos that's what it really is) has spaces for a couple of boats "by arrangement". The moorings - not being EA are not managed by TVM, though he might like to do so at some future time.

 

Well to say that the moorings were let by Mr Geller's kindness is stretching things somewhat. He let them at a commercial rate, I know because I used to rent one. As far as I'm aware, they are still available to rent. There were 'No Mooring' signs towards the pub where bank repairs/alterations have been carried out. The opposite bank is owned by Phillimore estates and has had concrete edging built along the length and 'No Mooring' signs attached. Not sure if they were legally entitled to do so because the towing path runs along there so the bank and any riparian right don't necessarily belong to them. Seeing as they own half of England we shall  probably never find out.

Keith

Edited July 21, 2017 by Steilsteven

[Lily Rose]

12 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

Not sure if they were legally entitled to do so because the towing path runs along there so the bank and any riparian right don't necessarily belong to them. Seeing as they own half of England we shall  probably never find out.

Keith

As a Thames newbie of 2 days now I´ve been wondering about this.

I understand that if I moor alongside a field I may get a visitor asking for £5 (or whatever) but does that still apply if you are moored on the Thames Path side of the river or only on the other side?

[Paringa]

3 hours ago, OldGoat said:

I say again -

The length of moorings below the lock from the bend (this is going upstream) that used to be available by the kindness of Mr. Geller now have (well they did in May) No Mooring signs. Past Uri's house there are several moorings that - I assume - are let out, or suffered by the various  house owners. The pub ('cos that's what it really is) has spaces for a couple of boats "by arrangement". The moorings - not being EA are not managed by TVM, though he might like to do so at some future time.

 

Yes so you did...

But there are Green signs just downstream of Gellers former place and on his side. I pulled up to one and I am sure it said a Tenner a night... That is why I mis-interpreted the picture previously posted. That was about a month ago...

Edited July 21, 2017 by Paringa

[Steilsteven]

12 hours ago, MrBeethoven said:

As a Thames newbie of 2 days now I´ve been wondering about this.

I understand that if I moor alongside a field I may get a visitor asking for £5 (or whatever) but does that still apply if you are moored on the Thames Path side of the river or only on the other side?

There is no simple answer I'm afraid.

A friend of mine owns a piece of land fronting the Thames that has the towing path between his land and the river. This confers no rights to use of the bank by him. Other adjacent properties have expanded their gardens to the water's edge but the same applies to them. It would be interesting to know whether such properties have any right to prevent or charge for mooring.

Keith

[OldGoat]

14 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

There is no simple answer I'm afraid.

A friend of mine owns a piece of land fronting the Thames that has the towing path between his land and the river. This confers no rights to use of the bank by him. Other adjacent properties have expanded their gardens to the water's edge but the same applies to them. It would be interesting to know whether such properties have any right to prevent or charge for mooring.

Keith

That's very interesting. In occasional discussions on another forum this issue has never been aired. Probably because nobody really knows.

To confuse the issue even more if you're right about the towing path - how is it that HRR via Steve RB can charge you to moor on the Bucks / Berks side?

There is no real towpath on the Thames as on the canals. Some footpaths were converted into the Thames Path some years ago - but that's a right to use and not ownership, which presumably rests with the riparian owners. We need a Nigel Moore (if not himself) type of knowledgeable person.

[Steilsteven]

4 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

That's very interesting. In occasional discussions on another forum this issue has never been aired. Probably because nobody really knows.

To confuse the issue even more if you're right about the towing path - how is it that HRR via Steve RB can charge you to moor on the Bucks / Berks side?

There is no real towpath on the Thames as on the canals. Some footpaths were converted into the Thames Path some years ago - but that's a right to use and not ownership, which presumably rests with the riparian owners. We need a Nigel Moore (if not himself) type of knowledgeable person.

I'm not saying that it applies everywhere but it might. The question is, if the towing path crosses your land is it actually crossing it or is it the boundary? No doubt it would need a search through many Acts of Parliament going back centuries and many Land Deeds over the same period.

Keith