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Volockies


Mac of Cygnet

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1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

I am not especially vexed by those who are cautious - rather that than having to witness an accident. What does vex me are those who think that you have to do the same when descending, even to using only one paddle at first.

Straw man argument

Or even filling a lock with NO boat in it.  

 

Woodend Lock on the T&M was interesting, for months the top ground paddle was bust and I mean months, you had to use the gat paddle to fill the lock from scratch. As soon as they mended the ground paddle no one would draw the gate paddle until the lock was over half full.

 

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Question to the mods.

Does the forum software have the ability to create a branch in topics?  That way when a topic veers away from the OP the mods can move these entries off to a separate, but kind of joined, thread.  This means that personal ding dongs or spats can be held away from the 'meat' of the OP leaving those of us who were interested in the main idea of the topic to view it without having to trawl through endless 'he said', 'she said' posts.

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36 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Too generalistic reply Nick. You are talking one boat in a narrow lock by the sounds of things and even then I completely disagree with you it takes but a second for the lock operator to get a thumbs up from the steerer to ensure he is ready with engine etc when paddles lift. As for wide locks then there are often 2 or more boats to ensure are ready. At Holme lock when I skippered the Nottingham Princess the full time lockies always asked us if we were ready to go up/down there are many occasions for instance at that and other locks when the lockie simply cannot see 3 or 4 boats at the far side of the lock from his cabin this is the same for many locks around the system such as the 200 foot plus length ones at place s like ferrybridge. Its common sense and common courtesy to ensure skipper/steerer is ready.

Not too generalistic in the context of this thread, which was about one particular narrow lock. It may take only a second to get a thumbs up but it is a pointless second, and there are plenty of folk who don't realise what you are on about and never give  thumbs up back - they are presuming you will just get on with filling the lock as one has done for the past couple of hundred years. Yes of course it is not a universal strategy for all locks. I imagine there is a fair bit of interaction on the radio before paddles are opened on Panama locks for example. But you contradict yourself above when you say that you should ensure all skippers are ready, whilst also saying that you can't see all the boats! Do you have a string of small children running around acquiring thumbs from the hidden skippers or something?

36 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

 

Edited by nicknorman
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9 minutes ago, PeteS said:

Question to the mods.

Does the forum software have the ability to create a branch in topics?  That way when a topic veers away from the OP the mods can move these entries off to a separate, but kind of joined, thread.  This means that personal ding dongs or spats can be held away from the 'meat' of the OP leaving those of us who were interested in the main idea of the topic to view it without having to trawl through endless 'he said', 'she said' posts.

I think the discussion is entirely on topic. Perhaps you are one of those modern people who can only be around other people who agree with you, and can't tolerate anyone who has a different view? Tracey Ullman did a really good sketch about that. It would have been really funny if it wasn't so true!

Why not try participating in the discussion. What's your view about volockies?

Edited by nicknorman
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1 hour ago, Rose Narrowboats said:

They'll all behave the same if you put them against the top gate as everyone used to.......The person on the top paddles waits for the stempost to touch the cill and up they go.

Um. Tried that single handing in a 52 ft boat on the Oxford. Left it in tickover and drew the paddles sharpish. The boat went back a few feet then slammed back into the cill. That cost me a decent bottle of wine, so never again.

Oh and it woke Mrs S up...

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4 hours ago, nicknorman said:

...Occasionally I single hand. If I am on my own (ie no volockies, no other assistants) then I will probably not open both paddles fully straight away, because it is quicker to do it more slowly than to take the time to secure the boat to a bollard.

Hey Nick we have more in common than I initially thought. My wife went shopping halfway up Atherstone, so I single-handed the rest of the locks. I see you use the same technique as me in such situations. Coming back down the same flight with different vollies they were really helpful and so was I draining filling the locks for the boat following until we met one coming up.

Of the whole trip I single-handed from Newark to Fazeley (wife's work gets in the way on long trips) and half way up Atherstone. Yes it's very easy with crew, but going back to the OP Mac (who I know to be a good guy) was single-handed and the vollie did what bad vollies do.

Love to meet you some day I really think we would get along fine. Oh bugger there's me making assumptions now!

Edited by Midnight
impossible to fill a lock by draining it
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4 minutes ago, Midnight said:

Hey Nick we have more in common than I initially thought. My wife went shopping halfway up Atherstone, so I single-handed the rest of the locks. I see you use the same technique as me in such situations. Coming back down the same flight with different vollies they were really helpful and so was I draining the locks for the boat following until we met one coming up.

Of the whole trip I single-handed from Newark to Fazeley (wife's work gets in the way on long trips) and half way up Atherstone. Yes it's very easy with crew, but going back to the OP Mac (who I know to be a good guy) was single-handed and the vollie did what bad vollies do.

Love to meet you some day I really think we would get along fine. Oh bugger there's me making assumptions now!

I'm sure you are right (about getting along that is!).

For the record I am in agreement / sympathy with the OP's post, I just got a little distracted on the way... but there is a big difference between a large river lock where the boat should be secured before lifting paddles, and a Coventry lock. But let's not start all that again!

Edited by nicknorman
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My tuppence worth :-) Re waiting for a signal form the skipper. When I am working the lock for our own boat, I don't need to wait for the signal as we have been locking for so long together that I know at what point to start opening paddles. However, if I am working a lock for anyone else, I don't start opening the paddle till I make contact with the skipper, no matter how long it takes! The reason for this is that it is up to the skipper how he wants to position his boat  and when he is ready for the paddles to go up . By making contact, I can also glean the information about whether he wants half apaddle to start or right up. It is his boat after all, and it would be presumtiopus of me to dictate how he wants the lock operated. Having said that,  he will never get the "one click at a time" treatment :-) 

Haggis

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By the way, when we recently ventured up the Llangollen, the non-volockie locky was very friendly and helpful. Unusually it (she) was a young lady. Some of the "old hand" professional lockies can be a bit officious and patronising but she certainly wasn't.

1 minute ago, haggis said:

My tuppence worth :-) Re waiting for a signal form the skipper. When I am working the lock for our own boat, I don't need to wait for the signal as we have been locking for so long together that I know at what point to start opening paddles. However, if I am working a lock for anyone else, I don't start opening the paddle till I make contact with the skipper, no matter how long it takes! The reason for this is that it is up to the skipper how he wants to position his boat  and when he is ready for the paddles to go up . By making contact, I can also glean the information about whether he wants half apaddle to start or right up. It is his boat after all, and it would be presumtiopus of me to dictate how he wants the lock operated. Having said that,  he will never get the "one click at a time" treatment :-) 

Haggis

Well for the record, if you ever are kind enough to help us, just open the paddles when the gates are shut unless you see / hear  me screaming!

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2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

By the way, when we recently ventured up the Llangollen, the non-volockie locky was very friendly and helpful. Unusually it (she) was a young lady. Some of the "old hand" professional lockies can be a bit officious and patronising but she certainly wasn't.

Well for the record, if you ever are kind enough to help us, just open the paddles when the gates are shut unless you see / hear  me screaming!

Will do but if we are ever in that position I will be more than happy to be the weaker sex and allow the males to do the work. I'll supervise :-)

 

haggis

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1 hour ago, billS said:

Um. Tried that single handing in a 52 ft boat on the Oxford. Left it in tickover and drew the paddles sharpish. The boat went back a few feet then slammed back into the cill. That cost me a decent bottle of wine, so never again.

Oh and it woke Mrs S up...

I find that quite often the best way to draw the paddle is not snatching up by half or quarter but to wind continuously and slowishly but steadily until its fully open. Trying to c=visulise it when sitting here I would say at about 1 tern per 5 seconds, but that's a guess.

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1 hour ago, billS said:

Um. Tried that single handing in a 52 ft boat on the Oxford. Left it in tickover and drew the paddles sharpish. The boat went back a few feet then slammed back into the cill. That cost me a decent bottle of wine, so never again.

Oh and it woke Mrs S up...

Half open the first, pause for a second until the flush bounces off the bottom gates and the boat moves forwards again, then fully open it.

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2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Not too generalistic in the context of this thread, which was about one particular narrow lock. It may take only a second to get a thumbs up but it is a pointless second, and there are plenty of folk who don't realise what you are on about and never give  thumbs up back - they are presuming you will just get on with filling the lock as one has done for the past couple of hundred years. Yes of course it is not a universal strategy for all locks. I imagine there is a fair bit of interaction on the radio before paddles are opened on Panama locks for example. But you contradict yourself above when you say that you should ensure all skippers are ready, whilst also saying that you can't see all the boats! Do you have a string of small children running around acquiring thumbs from the hidden skippers or something?

Cranfleet lock is what the OP was talking about and I may be mistaken but I don't think its a narrow lock unless half of it has been filled in? I was meaning that the lockie at Holme lock used to ask us if we were ready and as we were high up we acted for him as to checking if the boats alongside us were ready. Remember the toilets on the Nottingham princess are about as big as your boat and we blocked the lockies view totally of other boats. Stick to gliding its what you are qualified for and ill stick with my knowledge and the three differing boatmasters licences that I hold ;)

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I have never had a problem with a volockie but I do find they have a general attitude that they have already decided how things are going to work. All that does is disrupts the rhythm of a crew who are used to locking together. For that reason I am happy not to be assisted by volockies if I have crew with me. I would never actively refuse their assistance though. When single handing I am grateful for the help and happy to stay aboard while they do the work.

I would never expect anyone to draw a paddle without them knowing I am aware. If I am on the helm of my own boat I will give a shout to the crew to open paddles and tell them what I want. Usually that's wind them up steadily and fully but with a small boat there are locks where it pays to be a little circumspect.

JP

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1 hour ago, FadeToScarlet said:

Half open the first, pause for a second until the flush bounces off the bottom gates and the boat moves forwards again, then fully open it.

Yep, (and so long as it's not a full length boat.... I forget how I know this), open one, cross the gate smartly and then as you lift the second one it cushions the boat as she runs forward again onto the cill bumper.

The paddle culverts in the new locks at Hillmorton run the length of the lock with three connections per side into the chamber so there is less surging in these than the old locks, especially since they reduced the size of of the paddle boards from 3'x3' to 2'x2'. The bottom end entry is behind the bottom gates and designed as such so you can shut the bottom gates with the top paddles. You'll get shouted at for it these days though - even drawing a gate shut with a bit of paddle is frowned upon now.

 

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1 minute ago, Rose Narrowboats said:

 . The bottom end entry is behind the bottom gates and designed as such so you can shut the bottom gates with the top paddles. You'll get shouted at for it these days though - even drawing a gate shut with a bit of paddle is frowned upon now.

 

Same as in Birmingham then

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2 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Cranfleet lock is what the OP was talking about and I may be mistaken but I don't think its a narrow lock unless half of it has been filled in? I was meaning that the lockie at Holme lock used to ask us if we were ready and as we were high up we acted for him as to checking if the boats alongside us were ready. Remember the toilets on the Nottingham princess are about as big as your boat and we blocked the lockies view totally of other boats. Stick to gliding its what you are qualified for and ill stick with my knowledge and the three differing boatmasters licences that I hold ;)

Yes you are right, cranfleet lock is what the OP was talking about. As I've said, I agree with the OP's comments. My involvement in the thread was talking about Atherstone. Do try to keep up. Or maybe you should go back to coppering where it wasn't necessary to grasp more than one concept at a time? Anyway, if you need bits of paper to prove you are competent there must be something wrong!

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11 hours ago, PeteS said:

Question to the mods.

Does the forum software have the ability to create a branch in topics?  That way when a topic veers away from the OP the mods can move these entries off to a separate, but kind of joined, thread.  This means that personal ding dongs or spats can be held away from the 'meat' of the OP leaving those of us who were interested in the main idea of the topic to view it without having to trawl through endless 'he said', 'she said' posts.

The function does exist, yes. It's a little awkward though and a neat split isn't always possible. Personally, my favourite threads are those which wander. You may have a point here though that a separate thread could be created "How quickly should paddles be lifted?"  

Thoughts anyone?

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30 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

The function does exist, yes. It's a little awkward though and a neat split isn't always possible. Personally, my favourite threads are those which wander. You may have a point here though that a separate thread could be created "How quickly should paddles be lifted?"  

Thoughts anyone?

My thought would be who decides what's a thread split.....we seem have enough people here already with opinions..,,some I guess might say I'm one of them! 

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16 minutes ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

As the OP, I don't mind too much about wandering topics - I've caused them myself.

But perhaps we could have a new forum called 'Personal Spats' into which about half this topic and a few others could be moved? :)

One man's "personal spat" is another man's "frank exchange of views" - the latter being, surely, what should happen on a discussion forum.

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