Travelpower can someone explain?

[mross]

He said he didn't want to offend ANYONE IN PARTICULAR.  

[mrsmelly]

Just now, mross said:

He said he didn't want to offend ANYONE IN PARTICULAR.  

I am trying  yes I know some would say VERY trying

[Boredrider]

Our 28 hp Gardener runs a Travel Power quite effectively, but maybe that is because they a proper English horses!!

One advantage not mentioned above is that combining the Travelpower with a decent three stage mains charger (say a Mastervolt, or Victron) means that your batteries can be charged at optimum voltage whenever the engine is running. So your Trojans or whatever, get 14.8V in the absorbtion phase rather than the 14.4V that the alternator manages.

[MtB]

On 15/07/2017 at 15:20, mrsmelly said:

mine is on bog standard Isuzu 42 

 

That's a shame. I'm surprised you couldn't afford a proper engine 

[mrsmelly]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

That's a shame. I'm surprised you couldn't afford a proper engine 

[dmr]

16 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Hi Dave

 

Err rotine maintainance?  Ive had no problems YET!! I know of coxs for when it goes tits up but what routine stuff do you recommend? cheers

'ello

We've got the old black box version. Once a year I open up the box and take all the fluff and dog hair out of the fan. Once every two or three years (we do 1200 hours/year) I check the brushes and get new bearings pressed into the alternator. It was a bearing failure that cost us a Lot of money a few years ago. The black box alternator is based on a standard Bosch unit which I suspect was never designed to cope with the side loading of a tight polyV belt. I think the newer silver box version uses an Iskra so is probably stronger.

I buy the bearings and a local bloke replaces them for a tenner so its no big deal.

We have a "proper" engine room and a dog and I suspect the air flow to the engine does result in most of the dog hair ending up in the engine room and inside the doings.

...............Dave

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, dmr said:

'ello

We've got the old black box version. Once a year I open up the box and take all the fluff and dog hair out of the fan. Once every two or three years (we do 1200 hours/year) I check the brushes and get new bearings pressed into the alternator. It was a bearing failure that cost us a Lot of money a few years ago. The black box alternator is based on a standard Bosch unit which I suspect was never designed to cope with the side loading of a tight polyV belt. I think the newer silver box version uses an Iskra so is probably stronger.

I buy the bearings and a local bloke replaces them for a tenner so its no big deal.

We have a "proper" engine room and a dog and I suspect the air flow to the engine does result in most of the dog hair ending up in the engine room and inside the doings.

...............Dave

Ahh I thank you. I will remove said cover and av a look for fluff. Am I right in thinking that unless powered up there is very little load on the alternator bearings?

[dmr]

4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Ahh I thank you. I will remove said cover and av a look for fluff. Am I right in thinking that unless powered up there is very little load on the alternator bearings?

No, the belt needs to be tight so there is always a big side load on the bearings. I think its actually the same regardless of how many amps the TP is producing but I'd have to think hard about that one. My "alternator man" tells me that its usually the rear bearing that fails on most alternators.

...............Dave

[nicknorman]

11 minutes ago, dmr said:

No, the belt needs to be tight so there is always a big side load on the bearings. I think its actually the same regardless of how many amps the TP is producing but I'd have to think hard about that one. My "alternator man" tells me that its usually the rear bearing that fails on most alternators.

...............Dave

No, more side load when the alternator is producing lots juice.

Anyway, we have a 3.5kva travelpower, 175A alternator, 2.5kva Mastervolt Combi. So with the engine (Beta 43) idling, we get about 2.5kw from the travelpower and just under 2kw from the alternator via the Combi (if the TP is off). BUT this is really bad thing to do as it puts a lot of stress on the belts, crankshaft and alternators! So we run at about 1200rpm if there is a heavy load on such as the tumble drier (2kw).

The setup gives us redundancy and flexibility - if the domestic alternator fails, we can use the TP and Combi to charge the batteries. If the TP fails we can use the Combi to produce mains. If the Combi fails, we can (with a slight wiring change) get mains direct from the TP, batteries charged via the alternator.

Battery charging via the TP and Combi allows any charging voltage to be set, e.g. 15.5v for equalising the batteries.

So whilst it isn't necessary to have both a TP and a Combi inverter, and if I could only have one it would be the Combi, the TP does bring quite a lot to the party - but is of course expensive. Just depends on your budget.

[Robbo]

Just now, nicknorman said:

No, more side load when the alternator is producing lots juice.

Anyway, we have a 3.5kva travelpower, 175A alternator, 2.5kva Mastervolt Combi. So with the engine (Beta 43) idling, we get about 2.5kw from the travelpower and just under 2kw from the alternator via the Combi (if the TP is off). BUT this is really bad thing to do as it puts a lot of stress on the belts, crankshaft and alternators! So we run at about 1200rpm if there is a heavy load on such as the tumble drier (2kw).

The setup gives us redundancy and flexibility - if the domestic alternator fails, we can use the TP and Combi to charge the batteries. If the TP fails we can use the Combi to produce mains. If the Combi fails, we can (with a slight wiring change) get mains direct from the TP, batteries charged via the alternator.

Battery charging via the TP and Combi allows any charging voltage to be set, e.g. 15.5v for equalising the batteries.

So whilst it isn't necessary to have both a TP and a Combi inverter, and if I could only have one it would be the Combi, the TP does bring quite a lot to the party - but is of course expensive. Just depends on your budget.

If you had one choice would you go for TP or Alt/Inverter?

[nicknorman]

Just now, Robbo said:

If you had one choice would you go for TP or Alt/Inverter?

I answered that in my post!

[Robbo]

Just now, nicknorman said:

I answered that in my post!

Oh I!  

[dmr]

1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

No, more side load when the alternator is producing lots juice.

Anyway, we have a 3.5kva travelpower, 175A alternator, 2.5kva Mastervolt Combi. So with the engine (Beta 43) idling, we get about 2.5kw from the travelpower and just under 2kw from the alternator via the Combi (if the TP is off). BUT this is really bad thing to do as it puts a lot of stress on the belts, crankshaft and alternators! So we run at about 1200rpm if there is a heavy load on such as the tumble drier (2kw).

The setup gives us redundancy and flexibility - if the domestic alternator fails, we can use the TP and Combi to charge the batteries. If the TP fails we can use the Combi to produce mains. If the Combi fails, we can (with a slight wiring change) get mains direct from the TP, batteries charged via the alternator.

Battery charging via the TP and Combi allows any charging voltage to be set, e.g. 15.5v for equalising the batteries.

So whilst it isn't necessary to have both a TP and a Combi inverter, and if I could only have one it would be the Combi, the TP does bring quite a lot to the party - but is of course expensive. Just depends on your budget.

Not done any belt stuff for years. I thought as load increased the tension increased on the loaded run of the belt and decreased in the unloaded run so that the total side load remained constant, but I could well be wrong and its not top of the list of things to work out..

We have no option but to run on tickover quite a lot as with the JD3 slow canal cruising is done at tickover speed. This does result in some big "torsional" speed fluctuations as the John Deere was never really designed for such low speed running. There is always a gentle "modulated squeal" from the TP belt when working hard but so far its done over 9000 hours on the current engine and (Im going to get some flack here) is still running with the original belt. I do carry a spare belt though.

...............Dave

[nicknorman]

6 minutes ago, dmr said:

Not done any belt stuff for years. I thought as load increased the tension increased on the loaded run of the belt and decreased in the unloaded run so that the total side load remained constant, but I could well be wrong and its not top of the list of things to work out..

We have no option but to run on tickover quite a lot as with the JD3 slow canal cruising is done at tickover speed. This does result in some big "torsional" speed fluctuations as the John Deere was never really designed for such low speed running. There is always a gentle "modulated squeal" from the TP belt when working hard but so far its done over 9000 hours on the current engine and (Im going to get some flack here) is still running with the original belt. I do carry a spare belt though.

...............Dave

I suspect that as the torque is increased from nothing (side load only due to tension) to a small value, the force on the "pulling" side increases and the force on the "following" side decreases, thus the total side load probably doesn't change much. But there will come a point where the "following" force has fallen to zero, and after that any increase in torque increases the force on the "pulling" side and thus the total side force. Obviously the point at which this happens depends on the static belt tension.

9000 hrs is amazing, I had to change ours after about 1500 hrs. Maybe it depends on pulley sizes?

Does your TP alternator have a freewheel?

Edited July 15, 2017 by nicknorman

[dmr]

17 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I suspect that as the torque is increased from nothing (side load only due to tension) to a small value, the force on the "pulling" side increases and the force on the "following" side decreases, thus the total side load probably doesn't change much. But there will come a point where the "following" force has fallen to zero, and after that any increase in torque increases the force on the "pulling" side and thus the total side force. Obviously the point at which this happens depends on the static belt tension.

9000 hrs is amazing, I had to change ours after about 1500 hrs. Maybe it depends on pulley sizes?

Does your TP alternator have a freewheel?

No, we don't have a freewheel and because the pulley on the engine is big (almost 13 inches) the wrap on the little TP pulley is far from ideal. The water pump-starter alternator V belt has lasted just as long but I'm driving a 100 amp domestic alternator off a single 13mm V belt and that sheds some rubber so won't last nearly as long. I wonder if the good life is because the JD3 is a very clean so there is zero oil contamination on the belts.

Does the belt tension on the slack side of the TP belt ever get to zero? I suppose we could work this out but would need to have an estimate of that static tension. Suppose I could have a cautious feel whilst the engine is running, or maybe just look to see if it flaps about.

...............Dave 

[nicknorman]

2 minutes ago, dmr said:

No, we don't have a freewheel and because the pulley on the engine is big (almost 13 inches) the wrap on the little TP pulley is far from ideal. The water pump-starter alternator V belt has lasted just as long but I'm driving a 100 amp domestic alternator off a single 13mm V belt and that sheds some rubber so won't last nearly as long. I wonder if the good life is because the JD3 is a very clean so there is zero oil contamination on the belts.

Does the belt tension on the slack side of the TP belt ever get to zero? I suppose we could work this out but would need to have an estimate of that static tension. Suppose I could have a cautious feel whilst the engine is running, or maybe just look to see if it flaps about.

...............Dave 

Well the Beta 43 is equally clean, certainly no oil leaks! The TP belt does flap about somewhat when under load. Ours has a freewheel (iskra base alternator) so you would think our belt would last longer than yours. Perhaps it's because we use more power more often, it's normal for us to use the 2kw electric kettle for a brew, we use the tumble drier every few days (2kw for an hour or so)?

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

Well the Beta 43 is equally clean, certainly no oil leaks! The TP belt does flap about somewhat when under load. Ours has a freewheel (iskra base alternator) so you would think our belt would last longer than yours. Perhaps it's because we use more power more often, it's normal for us to use the 2kw electric kettle for a brew, we use the tumble drier every few days (2kw for an hour or so)?

Nick, is your boat gas free for some reason?

[nicknorman]

56 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Nick, is your boat gas free for some reason?

No, especially not after curried beans.

 

But we tend to use the electric kettle because it's quick, no water vapour from burning gas, and it turns itself off rather than screaming at you like some demanding child. If we are not cruising or going to be soon, we will use the gas kettle instead.

[ditchcrawler]

6 hours ago, dmr said:

This is probably true. We've got a JD3 which is a big high torque engine but a couple of weeks ago when pushing into Liverpool through all the weeds and water lilies with the washing machine heating it was just on the edge of "black smoke". Very satisfying exhaust note though.

..............Dave

 

I remember Barry Howkins asking what engine I had, I said BD3 and his reply was "Well that's OK if you have a generator and 3 dumb barges behind you" He was running a single cylinder Gardner with a hydraulic drive. (I hope I have his name right)

[Matt&Jo]

Okay. This is fairly straight forward altho i lost a few of you in your complicated replys. Thanks very much everyone for your views on and explanations of travel power.

2 questions remain tho......how much do these kits cost?

And if it breaks can you still run the engine?

[MtB]

On 15/07/2017 at 21:02, ditchcrawler said:

I remember Barry Howkins asking what engine I had, I said BD3 and his reply was "Well that's OK if you have a generator and 3 dumb barges behind you" He was running a single cylinder Gardner with a hydraulic drive. (I hope I have his name right)

 

I reckon you don't. His name is Barry Hawkins, I thought...

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I reckon you don't. His name is Barry Hawkins, I thought...

Thank you Mike, I wasnt sure as I knew a chap with a similar name in Gt Yarmouth about 15 years ago

[alan_fincher]

5 hours ago, nicknorman said:

the TP does bring quite a lot to the party - but is of course expensive. Just depends on your budget.

If you can afford a butler, you can tolerably afford a Travelpower.

[nicknorman]

20 minutes ago, Matt&Jo said:

Okay. This is fairly straight forward altho i lost a few of you in your complicated replys. Thanks very much everyone for your views on and explanations of travel power.

2 questions remain tho......how much do these kits cost?

And if it breaks can you still run the engine?

Not sure of the cost, can't remember what we paid to have it added to the spec of our boat. Bearing in mind you need the brackets to hold it, the triple pulley on the crank, plus the electrical bits, I'd guess around 2 to £2.5k. You should ask Beta Marine.

if it breaks you can still run the engine. At a pinch, if it's a mechanical issue with the TP alternator, you can always remove the belt that drives it.

[mrsmelly]

11 hours ago, Matt&Jo said:

Okay. This is fairly straight forward altho i lost a few of you in your complicated replys. Thanks very much everyone for your views on and explanations of travel power.

2 questions remain tho......how much do these kits cost?

And if it breaks can you still run the engine?

Bolt on kits for beta engines 42hp and above and Isuzu are available. Other makes I don't know but you would probably have to have bespoke brackets made up. I think its cheaper to have installed on  a new build and about 3.5 k to purchase the stuff and have retro fitted as it were. We arte talking BOATS so of course its a drop in the ocean and just one of the many reasons why it costs more to live on a boat than in a house.