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Calranthe

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5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It doesn't really matter what you can or cannot 'see', It is Cal and Paola's dream, if they want to overcome their own difficulties who are you to tell them not to try ?

Please give us your ideal boat to help, Offshore? Coastal? Canal? You seem to be their font of wisdom, Do you do canals or just offshore these days??

Edited by PD1964
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Actually Paola prefers a NB to a Wide, see our old disabled persons bungalow was built in a way that no space or was more that 4ft, designed so an infirm person always had a wall, or surface to steady herself, our old kitchen was smaller than a NB galley, even now when we moved into this semi detached house the big rooms were fitted in a way by us to make them a lot smaller, the living room is cut into 4 by a huge sofa, couch and chairs same with every room of the house and before some one points out "omg you are taking a person who may fall onto a boat!!!" Paola has not fallen in 6 years it is more a comfort thing now and she handled Kathleen and that boat rocked quite a bit especially when day tripper NB didn't slow down as they passed you.

What most would find as confining on a NB we would find normal compared to our old place.  

And yes we are still open to all suggestions and ideas.

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In my experience the most confining thing in a narrowboat is where a dedicated bathroom has been fitted, typically toilet, washbasin and shower in a space foot by 6 foot or less.

Having a walk through bathroom, where the toilet and shower are on the corridor, as it changes sides, overcomes this, but leaves the toilet and shower on display unless cleverly designed not to.

You will find advocates of both designs, but a walk through gives more "towelling space", and in my opinion is better suited to living aboard.

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10 hours ago, PD1964 said:

Please give us your ideal boat to help, Offshore? Coastal? Canal? You seem to be their font of wisdom, Do you do canals or just offshore these days??

One which meets their needs - that's it.

As one of the requirements (if they go for a canal boat) was to have a boat suitable for use on the T&M around their planned home mooring of SoT a wide beam would not allow them to pass thru any of the locks, their cruising area would be between which ever two locks their mooring is at.

 

As to your other question - I have two boats, one offshore 'blue-water' cruising catamaran, and a 'widebeam' used for River and the wide-canals of the North, after many years of NB's on the ill maintained and gradually worsening 'muddy ditches' we decided it was time to let others work the locks for us.

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Narrowboat designed for wheelchair access:

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=532516

60ft, £53,000.

Cross bed at rear - not sure how long this takes to "roll out".

Edit: I think a Thorneycroft 1.8 is a form of BMC engine?

Edited by Canal Cuttings
Added engine detail
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8 hours ago, Canal Cuttings said:

Cross bed at rear - not sure how long this takes to "roll out".

If it is like our cross bed, it literally takes 30 seconds to pull out the sliding slats, and another 30 seconds to push the smaller section of the memory foam mattress into place and hook the corners of the fitted bottom sheet onto the corners of the mattress.

Edited by cuthound
To unmangle the effects of autocorrect.
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On 8/20/2017 at 09:05, cuthound said:

If it is like our cross bed, it literally takes 30 seconds to pull out the sliding slats, and another 30 seconds to push the smaller section of the memory foam mattress into place and hook the corners of the fitted bottom sheet onto the corners of the mattress.

But the OP wanted a permanent bed not one they had to make up every night.

Or has that requirement gone out of the window as well now?

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Canal Cuttings put up a link showing a narrowboat already adapted for a disabled person, which may or may not suit Calranthe,  but it has a cross bed, rather than a fixed bed, presumably to maximise corridor width for a wheelchair.

CC also wondered how long the cross bed would take to roll out, so I explained how long it might take, assuming it is of a similar design to mine. 

There are so few boats adapted for disabled people that if Calranthe wants a secondhand one, he may have to compromise on some other features,  unless he specifies a new one.

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A Point I may have not been clear enough about.

Paola is mainly in a wheelchair due to the balance issues of the drugs and weakness in her legs, she walks around the house fine and goes next door mostly without aid (on good days) to put it in perspective when we got off Kathleen when she broke at Aston Number 3 lock on the TMC, those that know that lock know that where you moor up  there is quite a steep steps, we got Paola's wheelchair up on to the path on the top of the embankment and Paola was able to using the railing walk up those steps. A wheelchair allows us to go further and covers us when Paola is having a bad day, we have a stair lift but ours is and old semi detached house and have a 20 step staircase from ground to upper floor. on the TMC in stoke on trent (shelton) there is a double bridge next to a lock a foot bridge next to a rail bridge (just before the cemetery if you are coming from stoke towards festival park marina) First time we ever explored that route we wanted to get off in shelton and did not know that further down was a ramp, so I pushed Paola through the undergrowth to what we affectionately call hell steps (that foot bridge has 40+ steep steps either way) Paola made it while I lugged the Wheelchair.

I an not honestly see a time where Paola would need a wheelchair 100% of the time or a house/narrow boat with internal wheelchair access, after looking after her for 20 years I should know what I am talking about, the simple and sad fact is this, IF the cancer comes back it is an acute form of leukaemia  very fast acting she will be dead within 3 months , wheel chair access to a boat will be the least of our worries and as for her other side effect from the drugs/secondary illness once again the doctors agree that if it goes bad it will not be home in a wheelchair it will be intensive care in a hospital.

We already carry an emergency GPS alarm system that can be triggered when we are out on our walks so being on a narrow boat is not difference really (if the emergency services can get to Paola in under an hour up a mountain or out to sea then they can get to her on a narrow boat).

A lot of people put things off for many reasons, illness, budget, family, we put our life on hold always expecting to have time tomorrow or next week or next year, the amount of people I met in the different cancer wards all wished they had acted now and had regrets things they wished they had done, 20 year olds, 40 year olds illness can hit you any time.

Paola wants to be on the water, she wants to be taking pictures, painting, and watching nature go by, we love rivers, canals and all that kind of thing we also love the community of people, now while I will take my time and make sure the that when we get a new boat it is the right one, the one thing I will not do is wait for a better day or say no to what I know is important in life and that my friends is not money or playing it safe because life can throw you a curve ball when you least expect it.

Edited by Calranthe
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7 hours ago, Calranthe said:

Could some one tell me the Maximum Width (Beam I think it is called) and the Maximum depth of a boat to comfortably travel the TMC and most other UK canals.

 

This will give you a good idea(see dimensions) , but I have been told its not 100%accurate 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notices

 

Edited by rusty69
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8 hours ago, Calranthe said:

Could some one tell me the Maximum Width (Beam I think it is called) and the Maximum depth of a boat to comfortably travel the TMC and most other UK canals.

 

It is probably 'fair to say' that most canals can be 'used' by 'widebeams' (maybe a beam of 10 foot ?).

South of a line (approximately) Leicester across to Birmingham is OK for widebeams.

North of a line (approximately) Leicester across to Birmingham is OK for widebeams.

There is a 'bit in the middle' of which the T&M forms a signifiant part that is restricted to Narrowboats (ie under 7 foot beam)

 

Depth on the (what are now) leisure canals will be 'under 3 feet', on the larger commercial canals and rivers probably 6 feet+

It is difficult to provide every dimension for every canal in a single reply (remember also 'air-draft' for getting under bridges)

 

Here is a map showing wide & narrow access.

 

 

Widebeam Access Map.png

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Don't forget length too.

A narrowboat 6' 10" by 57' with a draught of 2'6" will comfortably navigate all canals. One 60' long can do so with care on some of the northern canals (resting diagonally in wide locks and reversing through a couple of locks).

One 62' long will navigate all canals except a couple in the North.

A 70' long one will navigate most except the Leeds & Liverpool (Wigan to Leeds, the bit from Wigan to Liverpool will take 70' boats).

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15 hours ago, Calranthe said:

Could some one tell me the Maximum Width (Beam I think it is called) and the Maximum depth of a boat to comfortably travel the TMC and most other UK canals.

 

I am slightly surprised that it has taken over three hundred posts on this thread to ask these very fundamental questions :)

Howard 

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16 hours ago, howardang said:

I am slightly surprised that it has taken over three hundred posts on this thread to ask these very fundamental questions :)

Howard 

It didn't matter before. They wanted an estuary or coastal cruiser!

Gone from one extreme to completely the other now.

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4 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

It didn't matter before. They wanted an estuary or coastal cruiser!

Gone from one extreme to completely the other now.

& you've never changed your mind about anything !

Give the guy a break, he's trying to figure out the best way to get his disabled partner on the water & he's new to this..........

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13 minutes ago, Jamboat said:

& you've never changed your mind about anything !

Give the guy a break, he's trying to figure out the best way to get his disabled partner on the water & he's new to this..........

She did, by partly answering his question.:-

"6'10" if you want to travel "most" canals."

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3 hours ago, Jamboat said:

Give the guy a break, he's trying to figure out the best way to get his disabled partner on the water & he's new to this..........

My input to the OP is to first try and work out 'what sort of water' they want to get onto.....and then look at what sort of boat.

I've read this thread over the weeks and can give some of our experiences. We got into boats late in life (in our early 50s). 15 years later we have just bought our first steel NB. The first 15 years were in 2nd hand and new GRP sailing yachts doing the coastal and Blue water things. Lumpy, bumpy plastic boats!......and that is in the marina. We loved it but it was hard work and uncomfortable at times.

Earlier in the thread I think I remember the OP talking about maybe graduating to coastal sailing and even looking at going across the channel and down the coast of France and Spain. At this point I think it is necessary to work what sort of 'sailing' does the OP want. I would break this down into 3 types of 'sailing'.

  1. Coastal stuff- estuaries and coastal.

  2. Mainly rivers with a bit of canals and coastal

  3. Mainly canals

We were doing the first type – but with some blue water in between. It was hard work, not only the blue water but the coastal bit. Coastal marinas can be very lumpy in a force 4. Wait till it gets to a force 8! After 12 years we got to the point where it was just becoming too much. Physically, mentally. Yes it is a bit more difficult in a yacht with a big mast/sails etc but a plastic tub with a motor will be more lumpy (no big keel). Coastal cruising will take a high degree of dedication (SWMBO and myself are both yachtmasters). Dont underestimate the level of experience/knowledge to coastal hop down to Spain.

This year we bought our 'old' NB. Wonderful. Sailing in muddy ditches. No tides. No anchors. No currents. When the wind blows have no worries at all. It takes all of 2mins to get the boat ready to go (viz 2 hrs for a sailing yacht in a coastal marina – or is that 2 days?). We can go out for a 20 min 'sail' and moor up in a different spot. Almost idiot proof. Having done all the lumpy stuff, this is heaven. As we are getting older this is the way to get on the water (as long as you dont go out on a hot bank holiday Sunday).

I guess, in between there is the 'River' stuff. We have never done this but likely it will be a half way house. Freedom to go lots of places, but currents, floods, limited mooring (compared to muddy ditches), more thinking, more preparation.

For each of the 3 types you need a different boat. For (I) a good strong grp cruiser with a good engine. For (ii) a grp cruiser. For (iii) a steel NB. I would strongly suggest you work out how you want to get on the water and then chose the type of boat. If I was in your position (with what I have read) I would be going for option (iii) as it will be far less onerous than the other options and in our experience has all the upsides with very few downsides. Why worry about tides, currents, anchors, wind, weather when you dont have to.

If you decide on (iii) then please get a steel NB. As per my previous posts, GRP boats are a pain on the canals. The few we have come across (and there have only been a few) have been a pain in slowing us down going through locks – and almost 100% of NB owners shaking their heads.

Maybe focus your minds on whether it is canal, rivers or coastal that you want to do and get the people here to help you with inputs on why they like one or other....and see if that fits with your ideas and aspirations.

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20 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Earlier in the thread I think I remember the OP talking about maybe graduating to coastal sailing and even looking at going across the channel and down the coast of France and Spain. At this point I think it is necessary to work what sort of 'sailing' does the OP want. I would break this down into 3 types of 'sailing'.

  1. Coastal stuff- estuaries and coastal.

  2. Mainly rivers with a bit of canals and coastal

  3. Mainly canals

I think that this post pretty much sums up the options - unfortunately there is very little overlap between 'types' and decisions have to be made.

We went 'from the sea' to the canals after some horrific passages and SWMBO saying 'never again'. After many years on the Canals, we have now gone 'back to the sea' with our Blue-Water Cruising Catamaran, but have also kept a 'Motor Cruiser' (14 foot beam) for use on the rivers and Northern broad canals where we can still fit.

The 'salt' never leaves your blood - give the NB a few years, then you'll be back !!!

As the canals silt up, the bottom gets nearer the top, the locks gets harder and harder to operate, the leakages and stoppages become even more frequent you will look back at those carefree, licence free, BSSC free, 'no toilet emptying days' with fond memories.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I think that this post pretty much sums up the options - unfortunately there is very little overlap between 'types' and decisions have to be made.

We went 'from the sea' to the canals after some horrific passages and SWMBO saying 'never again'. After many years on the Canals, we have now gone 'back to the sea' with our Blue-Water Cruising Catamaran, but have also kept a 'Motor Cruiser' (14 foot beam) for use on the rivers and Northern broad canals where we can still fit.

The 'salt' never leaves your blood - give the NB a few years, then you'll be back !!!

As the canals silt up, the bottom gets nearer the top, the locks gets harder and harder to operate, the leakages and stoppages become even more frequent you will look back at those carefree, licence free, BSSC free, 'no toilet emptying days' with fond memories.

Alan, you are totally right......and a good alternative view.

There is very little overlap - hence the OP needs to decide which they want.

Alan paints a picture that is opposite to ours. There are pros and cons for each type. As you move through life those pros and cons change. We loved the 'salt' but now in our mid 60's we know it is too much like hard work (and our kids who never got on with the sea - now can use the NB with the Grandkids). I just love how laid back and easy the cut is.

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