Goole Docks Charges

[Joe Bourke]

ABP have announced that the free tide periods are to end from 1st January next year. There will be a charge for any transit through Goole Docks via the locks, a minimum of 33 quid, but could be 55  if outside high tide periods. Commercial vessel owners who use Goole Docks have had letters about the new arrangements, they are not happy.

[mykaskin]

I'm not sure they can do this as I believe the Aire and Calder Navigation have a right to access to the river - presumably written into the Act of Parliament.

Mike

[Kieron G]

Thanks for that Joe , Do you know if it's going to be a charge for each boat or every lock operation ? i.e. will two or more boats be able to split the cost.

[Joe Bourke]

I have seen the letter sent to commercial boat skippers and it says the charge is per boat. No free locking any more. 33 pounds in the high tide periods and 50 pounds outside the high tide periods.  ABP will probably be getting plenty of grief from the commercial barge operators before it is brought in though. There is an aggregate contract about to start soon. 

[fanshaft]

On 06/07/2017 at 11:39, Fitter kieron said:

Thanks for that Joe , Do you know if it's going to be a charge for each boat or every lock operation ? i.e. will two or more boats be able to split the cost.

CBOA and C&RT are in discussion with ABP about these and other charges which are being proposed/announced.  From memory two or more barges will be cheaper, as now  when a charge is made.

The question of the legality of access charges at Goole for both leisure craft and river craft (barges)  is being investigated as no one knows for sure  - it may be an 'urban myth' passed down through generations of barge skippers or it may have some element of truth such as a provision in the Act.  Maybe Pluto knows?  There must have been a formal agreement between British Waterways and the British Transport Docks when the waterways and docks were split in 1962 as the docks were (and are) reliant on water supplied via the Aire & Calder Navigation.

The latest start date for the sea dredged aggregate traffic, Hull to Leeds,  is 'first quarter of 2018'; this is due to a much greater time needed to remediate and prepare the former oil wharf at Fleet lane, Woodlesford by the operating company.

Regards

David L 

 

 

[Naughty Cal]

[Alan de Enfield]

Unless there is any legislation to the contrary they can probably do as the wish - it is their bat & ball, they can take it home if they want to.

[PhilAtterley]

29 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Unless there is any legislation to the contrary they can probably do as the wish - it is their bat & ball, they can take it home if they want to.

Except for the fact that Goole Docks are completely reliant on water from the canal, and without it they would have no option but back-pumping out of the Ouse to maintain the necessary depths/retention level in each/all of the Docks. This is a potent argument and potential weapon to resist the imposition of these new charges, but unfortunately it resides in the hands of C&RT who possess neither the wit nor the will to use it effectively.

Edited July 9, 2017 by PhilAtterley

[PhilAtterley]

12 hours ago, fanshaft said:

 

 . . . . . . . . . .  The latest start date for the sea dredged aggregate traffic, Hull to Leeds,  is 'first quarter of 2018'; this is due to a much greater time needed to remediate and prepare the former oil wharf at Fleet lane, Woodlesford by the operating company.

Regards

David L 

 

I can't help wondering which will be the first to arrive, . . . .  the inaugural load of sand at Fleet, or Billy Bunter's Postal Order ?

[fanshaft]

12 hours ago, PhilAtterley said:

I can't help wondering which will be the first to arrive, . . . .  the inaugural load of sand at Fleet, or Billy Bunter's Postal Order ?

 

14 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

What the letter doesn't make clear is that like the dock rent under the ABP regulations river craft (i.e. barges) have three free days before the £500 ships dues charge kicks in and we've been told this is expected to continue. 

 

Regards

 

David L

12 hours ago, PhilAtterley said:

I can't help wondering which will be the first to arrive, . . . .  the inaugural load of sand at Fleet, or Billy Bunter's Postal Order ?

Yes, we all think this!  Hiowever in over 40 years of water  freight carrying I've learnt to be patient.  The Ashcourt Group are investing heavily in the wharf at Fleet, including a readymix plant - and they don't come cheap.

 

Regards  David L

[David Mack]

12 hours ago, PhilAtterley said:

Except for the fact that Goole Docks are completely reliant on water from the canal, and without it they would have no option but back-pumping out of the Ouse to maintain the necessary depths/retention level in each/all of the Docks. This is a potent argument and potential weapon to resist the imposition of these new charges, but unfortunately it resides in the hands of C&RT who possess neither the wit nor the will to use it effectively.

Unless ABP have a clear legal right to canal water, even though boats may have no clear legal right of free passage.

[Momac]

14 hours ago, PhilAtterley said:

Except for the fact that Goole Docks are completely reliant on water from the canal, and without it they would have no option but back-pumping out of the Ouse to maintain the necessary depths/retention level in each/all of the Docks. This is a potent argument and potential weapon to resist the imposition of these new charges

An interesting observation but I doubt C&RT will take any interest in the matter.

it seems to me ABP consider leisure boats to be , to say the least , a nuisance.  

[Naughty Cal]

8 hours ago, MartynG said:

An interesting observation but I doubt C&RT will take any interest in the matter.

it seems to me ABP consider leisure boats to be , to say the least , a nuisance.  

All brought about by some Muppets a couple of years ago. 

I said at the time it would make life more difficult for us all. And hey presto.

[PhilAtterley]

17 hours ago, MartynG said:

An interesting observation but I doubt C&RT will take any interest in the matter.

it seems to me ABP consider leisure boats to be , to say the least , a nuisance.  

ABP do regard pleasure craft as a nuisance, and understandably so, but whilst I am certain that C&RT won't be raising any effective opposition whatsoever to the new charges, I don't discount the possibility that they could equally well be lurking in the background as the primary cause of them.

The relationship between the canal and it's proprietors and the port of Goole is a long and complex one going back to the port actually owing it's existence in it's present form almost solely to the simultaneous existence of the Aire & Calder. 

Over the last 20-30, or so, years the traffic handled in South Dock and Barge Dock has switched from mainly canal borne freight (coal) being loaded into seagoing vessels for export, to sea borne imported freight, such as steel, being offloaded from ships onto, initially, barges as well as road transport, but now exclusively onto lorries, due in no small part to the ever vanishing and now virtually extinct wharfage facilities for handling  the steel at the end of it's journey along the canal. These changes have taken place partly utilizing what was formerly BW land - ABP's new Caldaire Terminal where BW's Goole Repair Yard and it's "temporarily" filled-in dry dock were - and this has involved ABP forking out more money to BW and their successors than ever before, on top of what they were and are already paying for water supply.

It could well be that C&RT have imposed some swingeing increases to their total annual 'take' from ABP in respect of their Goole operation, and this just might have prompted ABP to slap some hefty extra charges on canal traffic passing through the Docks.

Edited July 10, 2017 by PhilAtterley

[Joe Bourke]

ABP Goole have announced that the proposed charges will NOT be implemented. Yippee.

[Giant]

That's great news Joe. Any word on how they came to change their minds?

[Joe Bourke]

The letter says something like, after an internal review, and consultations with Canal & River Trust, they have decided to continue with the current arrangements.

[Naughty Cal]

Excellent news. 

[Up-Side-Down]

On 09/07/2017 at 09:16, PhilAtterley said:

I can't help wondering which will be the first to arrive, . . . .  the inaugural load of sand at Fleet, or Billy Bunter's Postal Order ?

Can't speaker for Billy Bunter's postal order, but January 2018 is looking likely for the first sand-carrying barge running from Hull to Fleet.

[fanshaft]

12 hours ago, Up-Side-Down said:

Can't speaker for Billy Bunter's postal order, but January 2018 is looking likely for the first sand-carrying barge running from Hull to Fleet.

This won't be possible because of the Pollington stoppage.  We have been told by the customer to expect to start running immediately it ends, which could be from 15th March.

Regards

David L