12volt or mains fridge 2017 figures

[philjw]

19 minutes ago, WotEver said:

something that they use to keep eggs in during the war

Isinglas?

http://www.1900s.org.uk/1940s50s-preserving-eggs-isinglass.htm

[rusty69]

Well if we're being serious, isnt vaseline supposed to preserve eggs. 

 

Probably easier on  the hen too

Edited July 4, 2017 by rusty69

[nb Innisfree]

Years ago our leccy bill started to climb, I eventually tracked it down to the chest freezer in the garage, it was running almost constantly so decided to take it down to the dump. That's when I found the fault, it was back breaking heavy,  two of us struggled to load it on the van - fibre glass insulation had become sodden with water. No prob these days with closed cell foam insulation. 

[nb Innisfree]

On 03/07/2017 at 13:36, mrsmelly said:

I dont know how old the 12 volt was but its still going strong another forum member has it. To digress a little my bro in law also a liveabord had a shoreline 12 volt for for several years on his boat and it went tits up 2 and a half years ago so he bought another new shoreline. He told me this week that its build quality is crap and not near as good as his older one and is falling to bits and funnily enough talking to a local liveaboard who also has a 12volt shoreline who tells me the same story. I do think they have probably all improved re insulation but everything about this mains fridge  is way better built.

Shoreline don't make fridges, they convert various manufactured ones, used to convert Lec ones, prob still do. 

[AndrewIC]

Wonder if you could use the fridge fan terminals to drive an hour-meter (for true instrumentation nerds)?

[mross]

2 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

How long have you got? we have huge lists of shit we have to do and we have to keep fridges below 8 degrees.

I can imagine; we had to comply with USPH rules and they went into similar detail.  Especially on construction and maintenance which was my area.

[mrsmelly]

12 hours ago, cuthound said:

Corrected that for you. 

Proper beer should be served between 12 & 14°C.

Yuk.......I hate any beer that warm 

11 hours ago, nb Innisfree said:

Shoreline don't make fridges, they convert various manufactured ones, used to convert Lec ones, prob still do. 

Yes and thats probably why some of the ones they do now are worse than they were a few years ago.

11 hours ago, mross said:

I can imagine; we had to comply with USPH rules and they went into similar detail.  Especially on construction and maintenance which was my area.

Yes and dont get me wrong I am well up for most of the rules as in all honesty when you are feeding people you are in effect in a good position through negligence or downright stupidity to do people serious harm.

[mross]

You can buy 12v watt-hour meters and 240V ones for about a tenner on eBay if you really want to make the comparison.  An Amp-hour meter won't be so good because the 12V is likely to vary a lot depending on alternator and charger.

Edited July 5, 2017 by mross

[OldGoat]

13 hours ago, WotEver said:

More seriously than my last post, waterglass?

http://www.1900s.org.uk/1940s50s-preserving-eggs.htm

Shows my age - yes, waterglass and after treatment (and cooking) the eggs tasted absolutely disgusting and to a lesser extent, anything using the eggs in cooking.

[peterboat]

15 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Your mate was right. Optimum temp to keep icecream is -18 frozen food stuffs between -20 and -24 Although eggs may be kept outside the fridge the EHO always always STRONGLY advise caterers to keep them in the fridge  we had two EHO bods drop on us last week and even after several swob tests and full everything else checks we again got 5 stars, thats cos we are the biz  funnily enough I went to a chinese takeaway last month and they proudly display their 3 star rating in a frame at the entrance  as there is no legal requirement to display it why the hell would you if you got a 3? 

cos its better than the one star they got last time

[Starcoaster]

Can a small, new and energy-efficient mains fridge be run on a plug-and-play inverter, or do you have to have a proper wired in PSW one?

[WotEver]

7 hours ago, Starcoaster said:

Can a small, new and energy-efficient mains fridge be run on a plug-and-play inverter, or do you have to have a proper wired in PSW one?

Yes it can, no you don't.

The proviso is that the inverter will probably have to be bigger than you thought - the start-up Current of a compressor fridge can be pretty high - plus small, cheap inverters tend to be pretty inefficient. 

All you can do is try it. 

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, WotEver said:

All you can do is try it. 

Take your inverter and battery down the shop and plug in

[mrsmelly]

7 hours ago, Starcoaster said:

Can a small, new and energy-efficient mains fridge be run on a plug-and-play inverter, or do you have to have a proper wired in PSW one?

As wotever says. I have had a few days with the new fridge now and its using fifty percent of the power taken by the 12 volt fridge, never again will I have 12 volts it was just that was what was on the boat. However the initial " Kick " to start the fridge each time the thermostat cuts in is quite significant. I wouldnt try running one on less than about a 1200 watt decent inverter to be sure that the initial kick doesnt cut the inverter out.

[smileypete]

3 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

As wotever says. I have had a few days with the new fridge now and its using fifty percent of the power taken by the 12 volt fridge, never again will I have 12 volts it was just that was what was on the boat. However the initial " Kick " to start the fridge each time the thermostat cuts in is quite significant. I wouldnt try running one on less than about a 1200 watt decent inverter to be sure that the initial kick doesnt cut the inverter out.

What's the energy rating (kWh/yr) of the new mains fridge?

[hounddog]

39 minutes ago, smileypete said:

What's the energy rating (kWh/yr) of the new mains fridge?

A+++ is < 22kwH/yr so 1,833 AH/yr @ 12V so an average of 5AH per day

although that's meaningless without know what the daily usage is in the summer when it's most useful.

[Robbo]

15 minutes ago, hounddog said:

A+++ is < 22kwH/yr so 1,833 AH/yr @ 12V so an average of 5AH per day

although that's meaningless without know what the daily usage is in the summer when it's most useful.

That 22 I believe you got from is a percentage not Kwh. There is no direct* relation between the rating and how many kwh a fridge uses!  One type of a++ fridge can use less kwh than different type of a+++ fridge.

* Well there is, but only between the same types of fridge.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Robbo

[OldGoat]

I did some tests a couple of months ago on :-

1. a loan 1100w high frequency inverter (thank you Bimble)
2. The following are all units bought from Sterling - they put tested return kit on ebay and they go for really silly (low cost) money:- 
3. a 200W   plug and play PSW
4. a 350W ditto
5. a 1600W MSW combi
6. a 2400W PSW combi

For test refrigerators I used an aged twin compressor Bosch large FF and a smaller modern Liebherr FF which is the only three star fridge compartment that I've found.

Results:-

• Neither of the plug and play units worked either machine.
• Both FFs worked with all the others
• Both were uncomfortable with MSW power, the Bosch rattled and Liebherr started unevenly
• The Bosch worked well with power saving mode, but the Liebherr 'stuttered' as soon as power saving was enabled. That's a pain...

I found that the Bimble unit was excellent in this application. It hardly got warm (Bimble were concerned that the unit might not be suitable for 24/7 operation - I suspect that meant at high loads, and they put a caveat on their site. I suspect it might be OK if the unit was used for a fridge and 'reasonably sized' home entertainment kit. I use 24V kit so can't comment on their 12v units. The 1100w unit is priced at around £180 - good value.

[mrsmelly]

56 minutes ago, smileypete said:

What's the energy rating (kWh/yr) of the new mains fridge?

93 kwh whatever that supposed to mean in real boat world living?

[mrsmelly]

10 minutes ago, Robbo said:

That 22 I believe you got from is a percentage not Kwh. There is no direct* relation between the rating and how many kwh a fridge uses!  One type of a++ fridge can use less kwh than different type of a+++ fridge.

* Well there is, but only between the same types of fridge.

And how do they work it out? are the summs done at a constant 2 degrees or a constant 8 degrees? is the fridge supposedly stuffed under a kitchen worktop ot in a house outhouse with a cooler surround and air movement etc etc etc?

[Robbo]

2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

93 kwh whatever that supposed to mean in real boat world living?

About 23ah/day @ 12v including inverter loss, but not inverter standby losses which could be roughly the same number.

[mrsmelly]

Just now, Robbo said:

About 23ah/day @ 12v including inverter loss, but not inverter standby losses which could be roughly the same number.

Ahh good thats about were it is doing at the moment which I am well pleased with, the inverter uses 0.3 without a draw and 4.8 with fridge running. Thing is even down at 4 degrees and today its 29 degrees in the front cabin and warmer in the boats kitchen the fridge is hardly ever running.

[Robbo]

12 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

And how do they work it out? are the summs done at a constant 2 degrees or a constant 8 degrees? is the fridge supposedly stuffed under a kitchen worktop ot in a house outhouse with a cooler surround and air movement etc etc etc?

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32003L0066&from=EN

Basically the annual kwh for the fridge type, volume and features it’s got, so the rating comparing like for like.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Robbo

[mrsmelly]

3 minutes ago, Robbo said:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32003L0066&from=EN

Basically the annual kwh for the fridge type and features it’s got, so the rating comparing like for like.

When I was looking online to buy a mains fridge I looked for the lowest kwh for the fridge size I wanted and didnt consider cost as  part  of the equasion as consumption was of more importance. What I did find was that the fridge I bought was the lowest kwh for size available, it was 160 quid and had a better consumption rate than miele and others at 400 plus quid.

[cereal tiller]

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

When I was looking online to buy a mains fridge I looked for the lowest kwh for the fridge size I wanted and didnt consider cost as  part  of the equasion as consumption was of more importance. What I did find was that the fridge I bought was the lowest kwh for size available, it was 160 quid and had a better consumption rate than miele and others at 400 plus quid.

Which make and model?