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Controversial widebeam continuous cruiser


Peppers

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41 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I agree with your first paragraph. If the boat is going to be your sole residence then it shouldn't matter if it's a >15T Dutch barge or a <2T yoghurt pot. It's your home.

I disagree with your 2nd paragraph if the boat is built to be your home. 

Otherwise, why are houses zero rated? It's because they are someone's home (even if they later get sold to a landlord). 

I think that my second paragraph is valid if the first paragraph wouldn't be valid for all boats that are the sole residence, and not only the ones that messure over the 15 Tonnes limit.

 

If that's not the case, then only commercially used boats should be entitled the zero rate VAT, is should be everybody or nobody, as a boat as sole residence doesn't change purpose being 6 tonnes or 60 tonnes.

 

As I said, those are just my thoughts about this matter.

 

Peter.

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On 03/07/2017 at 18:42, Matt&Jo said:

....im confident they will not go under as they have just built a large 200+ space marina.

 

I would have thought such a move would make them MORE likely to go under. Major investment such as this creates a massive cashflow stress on a business.

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I'm going to have a chat with new & used boats about this tomorrow - I've put an offer on a sailaway and if I can get it in writing that they will be liable for tax in the event of HMRC disputing the tax rate (and in the same vein I'll be liable should HMRC take query with it not being my main residence) then I'm happy.

 

Also thanks to everyone so far for everything on this topic and others. I'm about to go head first into the drink with boat fitting on a sailaway so I'm sure continued support and a fair bit of mockery at my cock ups from this forum will get us through the process eventually! Thanks all.

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3 hours ago, Peppers said:

I'm going to have a chat with new & used boats about this tomorrow - I've put an offer on a sailaway and if I can get it in writing that they will be liable for tax in the event of HMRC disputing the tax rate (and in the same vein I'll be liable should HMRC take query with it not being my main residence) then I'm happy.

 

Also thanks to everyone so far for everything on this topic and others. I'm about to go head first into the drink with boat fitting on a sailaway so I'm sure continued support and a fair bit of mockery at my cock ups from this forum will get us through the process eventually! Thanks all.

Let me know how you get on peppers please.

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3 hours ago, Matt&Jo said:

Yes its on their website with pictures of it newley created. 40 boats in at tye moment with 160 spaces spare at present.

So where is it as I couldn't find it, but I have a slow connection here tonight

 

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1 hour ago, Matt&Jo said:

Its called park farm marina in cheshire

That is what I thought you were going to say. Wincham Wharf are agents for it. I am moored there, I think you will find the ownership is completely separate. I could be wrong. Also its a long way from being finished, so hard to say its value, but I like it there.

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On 5 July 2017 at 20:20, Matt&Jo said:

Let me know how you get on peppers please.

Hi, they said they will write something up that says I'm liable if I'm found to be not living aboard and they're liable if its a sizing issue. It's being written up on Monday so I can share more information then.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 07/07/2017 at 11:54, Peppers said:

It's being written up on Monday

Hi Peppers,

I'm in a similar boat, considering a 60x11 Collingwood hull or sailaway, with VAT reassurance a very important issue.

Very interested to hear what they'll put in writing. 

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On ‎07‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 11:54, Peppers said:

Hi, they said they will write something up that says I'm liable if I'm found to be not living aboard and they're liable if its a sizing issue. It's being written up on Monday so I can share more information then.

Presumably the confirmation didn't arrive?

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1 hour ago, Folly said:

I'm in a similar boat, considering a 60x11 Collingwood hull or sailaway, with VAT reassurance a very important issue.

It should be clear enough by now, but "sole residence" is not something specified for a qualifying ship, and HMRC state this categorically. However it may be used as evidence that the design is not for leisure etc.

Alan has quoted VAT Notice 744C saying "for narrowboats the measurement must be taken from the underside of the deck at the side of the vessel rather than the roof of the cabin", and the builder of the craft in question is saying the gunwale is too narrow to constitute a deck. However the HMRC definition also allows for an open decked vessel, and in that case the measurement will be the top of the upper strake or gunwale. To my mind the photo clearly shows an open well deck at the fore end, and a flat steering deck at the stern, and I really can't imagine HMRC allowing a measurement to the roof simply on the basis of narrow gunwales.

However I'm sure all on here are waiting on tenter hooks for the confirmation paperwork from the builder. or for reference to the quoted judgement.

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Hasn t " Peppers " started another build blog thread ? Id therefore presume that purchase went ahead .

To be honest i havent overly understood much of all this discussion regarding VAT & Fat boats  but how anyone can consider gunwales not to constitute a " deck " is beyond me - if you walk on it then surely it has to be considered a deck ?? 

Edited by chubby
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37 minutes ago, chubby said:

Hasn t " Peppers " started another build blog thread ? Id therefore presume that purchase went ahead .

Hmm! I see that thread was started 8th July, before the date she said the paperwork was promised. Politeness would suggest she would say they'd gone ahead on this thread to stop people making further irrelevant comment.

(and worrying on their behalf)

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2 hours ago, Tam & Di said:

Hmm! I see that thread was started 8th July, before the date she said the paperwork was promised. Politeness would suggest she would say they'd gone ahead on this thread to stop people making further irrelevant comment.

(and worrying on their behalf)

Sorry! Yes this really is inconsiderate of me, I'm totally sorry! With one hectic thing and another I forgot that I did not mention on this thread. I really didn't mean to cause any inconvenience to anyone - please do accept my sincere apologies...

Yes, I can only speak for new and used boats but I was satisfied, as it shows that they state they are liable for their compliance with HMRC on my invoice, and that they have signed to say the boat is compliant with HMRC's qualifying ship issue - and I have signed to say that I am compliant (and therefore liable) for my status as a liveaboard.

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5 hours ago, Peppers said:

Sorry! Yes this really is inconsiderate of me, I'm totally sorry! With one hectic thing and another I forgot that I did not mention on this thread. I really didn't mean to cause any inconvenience to anyone - please do accept my sincere apologies...

Yes, I can only speak for new and used boats but I was satisfied, as it shows that they state they are liable for their compliance with HMRC on my invoice, and that they have signed to say the boat is compliant with HMRC's qualifying ship issue - and I have signed to say that I am compliant (and therefore liable) for my status as a liveaboard.

So if in a few years time you sell the boat to someone who is only going to use it for holidays, is it then libel for VAT that someone would have to pay?

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3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

So if in a few years time you sell the boat to someone who is only going to use it for holidays, is it then libel for VAT that someone would have to pay?

I doubt it. If I build a house to live in it's VAT free. If I then sell that house to someone as a second home they're not suddenly obliged to pay the VAT on the original build costs. 

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7 hours ago, Peppers said:

Sorry! Yes this really is inconsiderate of me, I'm totally sorry! With one hectic thing and another I forgot that I did not mention on this thread. I really didn't mean to cause any inconvenience to anyone - please do accept my sincere apologies...

Yes, I can only speak for new and used boats but I was satisfied, as it shows that they state they are liable for their compliance with HMRC on my invoice, and that they have signed to say the boat is compliant with HMRC's qualifying ship issue - and I have signed to say that I am compliant (and therefore liable) for my status as a liveaboard.

Glad you were reassured enough. Would love to see a copy of that agreement, if it's something you feel you can share by DM.

I'm probably weeks away from a similar order, very interested to hear your experience. I'll go find your build thread and follow along. 

Oh also: I saw a recent Collingwood 63x12ft in London today, can confirm that the (non?) deck is significantly narrower than other boats parked nearby, you'd probably want a good handrail...

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Yes its very narrow barely enough to get your foot on so does not i guess constitute as a deck ergo the VAT clearance.

Can i ask what depth insulation foam they have said they will put on? Reason being collingwood may build my boat or another of the builders (depends who they book it with they have 3) andmy agreement stated a minimum of 15mm.

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11 hours ago, Folly said:

Glad you were reassured enough. Would love to see a copy of that agreement, if it's something you feel you can share by DM.

 

4 hours ago, Matt&Jo said:

Can i ask what depth insulation foam they have said they will put on? Reason being collingwood may build my boat or another of the builders (depends who they book it with they have 3) andmy agreement stated a minimum of 15mm.

I'm working away at the minute, with the other half focusing on the boat so I can neither measure the foam exactly or get the paperwork - when I'm home in a couple of weeks I'll try to DM you my agreement @Folly

As for insulation foam all I can say was it was bloody loads, easily more than 15mm!! It was in most places about 200mm away from the battens in massive bulges and we had to absolutely hack it off. It took us 4 days and was a real pig of a job. 

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16 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

So if in a few years time you sell the boat to someone who is only going to use it for holidays, is it then libel for VAT that someone would have to pay?

Possibly but only if the seller is a VAT registered company.

Keith

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