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Towpath Improvement


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The commitment for towpath improvement by the CRT appears to be biased towards the cyclist, which is beneficial for that group of waterway users, but creating a dis-advantage for other users as cycling speed is improved. Should there be lanes for cyclists and walkers? In places where towpath bridges restrict the width and the towpath is narrow the current CRT code applies (although, sadly, ignored by the rogue cyclists), yet there are many examples where a clear cycling lane could be put in force. It seems SUSTRANS has tried to bring in their network through economy and whilst the benefits to all cyclists must be praised, little provision has been made to restrict, or penalise, the selfish element of this fraternity. Towpath improvement is beneficial to all, I recall trying to organise an RCHS walk along the South Stratford from Wilmcote in the 1990's before that particular towpath was improved. The towpath at one point was so slippy with mud and clay, and parts not a path but a slide into the water, that the trip had to be changed to avoid this section 

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As a multi-pastime user of towpaths, I find it saddening that there's all this hate for cyclists in general nowadays, whatever activity you choose will attract its share of inconsiderate idiots. In the past I've come across anglers who refused to move their poles off the towpath, requiring them to be stepped over (easy to lift my then toddling daughter over, not so easy with the dog). People having a picnic spread out across the towpath blocking it for everyone. And my personal favourite, a lovely old gent with a Narrowboat who had moored up by putting his ropes across the towpath at chest height and tied to the nearby trees. And lets just not get started on the piles of excrement, mostly dog. Where's the hate for these minorities?

Making separate lanes will not change a "Strava hunter" or speeding cyclists attitude (which is what I feel is at fault and needs addressing and changing). This would also require immense amounts of cash to implement, and as we're all painfully aware there just isn't enough to go around.

From what I can see, CRT is not the one solely funding the improvements, its usually Government and a couple of trusts/organisations stumping up the cash.
As an example, the Hudds Narrow Canal is getting 4.6km of towpath revamped by City Connect which is a large scheme attempting to improve cycle routes within the Leeds City Region's towns and cities, the lions share of this is from DfT (£22mill) with Local Authorities contributing (£8mill) and CRT only stumping up £150k over the three years. So its wrong to say they have a cyclist bias, IMHO they just see a way of having the towpaths upgraded at minimal cost to themselves and are accepting the funding with open arms. If this creates a year-round all-seasons-usable towpath for everyone I don't see the problem some have with it. If a bike can go on it, so can a wheelchair, so can a pram. Is it the improvement people are against, or the others an improved towpath will attract?

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Maybe notifying all users that a hierarchy without it being a hierarchy is in effect would help?

By that I mean cyclists being aware they are responsible for giving priority to walkers and the onus is on them to avoid walkers and not vice versa. Walking bikes through bridge holes for safety would help as well. Making it plain that towpaths arent suitable for the speed merchants you mention as well, with maybe boat owners being used in the manner of your old boater with boats tying up to trees with chest high ropes to slow down any speeding bikes.

That last bit was tongue in cheek.

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21 minutes ago, AMModels said:

Maybe notifying all users that a hierarchy without it being a hierarchy is in effect would help?

By that I mean cyclists being aware they are responsible for giving priority to walkers and the onus is on them to avoid walkers and not vice versa. Walking bikes through bridge holes for safety would help as well. Making it plain that towpaths arent suitable for the speed merchants you mention as well, with maybe boat owners being used in the manner of your old boater with boats tying up to trees with chest high ropes to slow down any speeding bikes.

That last bit was tongue in cheek.

I must admit to being guilty to riding under a couple of blind bridge holes, but only at walking pace or slower :(

To be fair, the dubious mooring was over 15 years ago, so I doubt cyclists were his intended target, just seemed to be that sort of bloody-minded chap at war with the world in general
I have seen deliberate traps laid for cyclists though, on dedicated cycle tracks, most would cause a tumble at worst but some were just short of attempted GBH (wire at head height across trails, planks with nails in buried under leaves on trails).

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10 hours ago, Heartland said:

The commitment for towpath improvement by the CRT appears to be biased towards the cyclist, which is beneficial for that group of waterway users, but creating a dis-advantage for other users as cycling speed is improved. Should there be lanes for cyclists and walkers? In places where towpath bridges restrict the width and the towpath is narrow the current CRT code applies (although, sadly, ignored by the rogue cyclists), yet there are many examples where a clear cycling lane could be put in force. It seems SUSTRANS has tried to bring in their network through economy and whilst the benefits to all cyclists must be praised, little provision has been made to restrict, or penalise, the selfish element of this fraternity. Towpath improvement is beneficial to all, I recall trying to organise an RCHS walk along the South Stratford from Wilmcote in the 1990's before that particular towpath was improved. The towpath at one point was so slippy with mud and clay, and parts not a path but a slide into the water, that the trip had to be changed to avoid this section 

Aren't those highlighted comments contradictory?

And surely improving the surface also improves things for wheel chair users or pushchairs?

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11 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

Aren't those highlighted comments contradictory?

And surely improving the surface also improves things for wheel chair users or pushchairs?

I think your first quote missed off the pertinent bit about increasing cycle speeds. Faster cycling does endanger other users.

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Reinstate the Barrier kissing gates with the Radar key for wheel chair users ,if put at frequent intervals the speed freaks may find alternative routes .

 Why with these splendid towpaths are mooring rings not being added whilst men and machinery are on site ?

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I believe Boatman has made a very good point, opening barriers does encourage cyclists to pass into areas where their speed( or even riding) is inappropriate and yes the key part of this post is speed. Hud Lad has also made some valid points, and the up to date improvements for the Huddersfield Canal towpath are useful information. It is still within peoples memories when the Huddersfield was a disused waterway as regards boaters, although walking, and riding, along the canal towpath was possible, I believe in many cases.   

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3 hours ago, Pie Eater said:

Did I not read somewhere that it is now CaRT official policy to leave the cycle barriers open.

The majority of the cycle barriers on the Leeds and Liverpool in the Wigan area are left open.

Yup, the two on the Hudds Narrow are now permanently open, although their positioning wasn't that great anyway.

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With respect to the extensive  towpath improvements in Birmingham and surrounding areas, I don't believe it has been funded by CRT, and it is focused solely on cyclists.

The cycle gates do seen in the main to be left open now.  I believe those gates were there to stop motor bikes not cyclists though, and sadly around the lesser used parts of the BCN you do often see trail bikes being ridden at high speed on the towpath.

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The funding for the BCN and GU towpaths has been from elsewhere. Yet the removal of gates, or opening of gates, can only be a concern. Yesterday afternoon by the ICC every cyclist it seems thought it was their right to speed past moored boats where people were walking. It was dangerous for the walkers and for the boaters. Some cyclists rang bells to force ( and yes FORCE is the correct word) a passage through, others assumed those on the towpath would stand out of the way as a matter of course. CRT have painted signs on the towpath near their Cambrian Wharf offices advising cyclists to slow down. They as much use as a chocolate fire guard!

I have and always will encourage cycling on the long towpaths out of the city, but these central waterway paths in Birmingham are no place for cyclists and an alternative route must be found for their requirements. CRT have at least on Health & Safety grounds have a requirement to ensure safety for all towpath users!

Edited by Heartland
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5 minutes ago, Heartland said:

The funding for the BCN and GU towpaths has been from elsewhere. Yet the removal opening of gates can only be a concern. Yesterday afternoon by the ICC every cyclist it seems thought it was their right to speed past moored boats where people were walking. It was dangerous for the walkers and for the boaters. Some cyclists rang bells to force ( and yes FORCE is the correct word) a passage through, others assumed those on the towpath would stand out of the way as a matter of course. CRT have painted signs on the towpath near their Cambrian Wharf offices advising cyclists to slow down. They as much use as a chocolate fire guard!

I have and always will encourage cycling on the long towpaths out of the city, but these central waterway paths in Birmingham are no place for cyclists and an alternative route must be found for their requirements. CRT have at least on Health & Safety grounds have a requirement to ensure safety for all towpath users!

Surely the safest way would be a system where road transport and pedestrians were kept seperate? In my view a cycle which is as a matter of fact a vehicle should simply be used in a location it is intended as in a road with other vehicles. Paths be they towpaths or a path at the side of the road should be kept for the use of pedestrians. This way people are kept safer and no pedestrian will be hit by a cycle. If a cyclist considers a road to be too dangerous a place for him in 2017 then perhaps cycling is not for him/her. 

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I saw CRT tweet a few weeks ago, someone had took a photo of the gates and said why were they open, they replied that they leave them all open and will close if cyclists start to cause a hazard.

A trip into oxford last week opened my eyes to this cyclist argument, dont really see many on my usual stomping grounds, but the last couple of miles into oxford center, wow!

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1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

If a cyclist considers a road to be too dangerous a place for him in 2017 then perhaps cycling is not for him/her. 

Perhaps not for me, but absolutely too dangerous for my 11yr old daughter who has only been cycling sporadically for the past few years.

Towpath cycling has taught her better bike control and respect for other users, its taught her to make others aware of her presence before its too late, to always slow down when approaching ANYTHING. She could not have achieved any of this in a road environment where a cyclist is unprotected from a high percentage of impatient idiots and where she is viewed as a 2nd or even 3rd class citizen.

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1 minute ago, Señor Chris said:

If a boater considers a towpath to be too dangerous a place for him in 2017 then perhaps boating is not for him/her

Towpaths are not dangerous places to be. However during my nearly thirty years of liveaboard useage all over the country it can be quite clearly seen that cyclists are making them a less safe place to be. Personaly it doesnt affect me too much because at my mooring I simply place articles completely across the towpath to block the passage of idiots. Its never a problem ( should I say rarely ) as I have a good view for a long way and can see considerate cyclists coming and simply move the said obstacles well before they get here and we always acknowledge each other with a friendly nod or word. However numptie cyclists simply have to come to a standstill as they tear along or come off their vehicle for being an idiot.

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37 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Towpaths are not dangerous places to be. However during my nearly thirty years of liveaboard useage all over the country it can be quite clearly seen that cyclists are making them a less safe place to be. Personaly it doesnt affect me too much because at my mooring I simply place articles completely across the towpath to block the passage of idiots. Its never a problem ( should I say rarely ) as I have a good view for a long way and can see considerate cyclists coming and simply move the said obstacles well before they get here and we always acknowledge each other with a friendly nod or word. However numptie cyclists simply have to come to a standstill as they tear along or come off their vehicle for being an idiot.

Are you moored near the train station?

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2 minutes ago, Dave Payne said:

Towpaths are not dangerous places to be. However during my nearly thirty years of liveaboard useage all over the country it can be quite clearly seen that cyclists are making them a less safe place to be.

Possibly a reflection of the fact that the roads have become more dangerous - for pedestrians and cyclists.

 

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Just now, Señor Chris said:

Possibly a reflection of the fact that the roads have become more dangerous - for pedestrians and cyclists.

 

Wondering why my name is next to that quote....

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Yes. I dont stop the trains passing though.

came through last week and kept an eye out but couldnt see your boat.

Nice spot that, apart from the trains.

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