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Log Boats - ancient inland navigation


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I currently have a contract to advise on management etc of The Arrow Valley Country Park in Redditch: it's related to my general expertise, and at the start of the contract I did say that, in heritage terms the story would be focused around the river. However, I didn't realise how much it might. Initially I was looking at 1000 years of history, with a Cistercian Abbey on the site. However the existing management plan makes reference to a "log boat" thought to date back to around 700BC, being found on site about 50 years ago

Whilst I know a little about inland navigation of that era, I think it's fair to say I am somewhat surprised at one of these vessels showing up in Redditch. My general knowledge goes back to the middle ages but even that is a bit sketchy. 2700 years ago is almost off my radar! I'm aware log boats existed, I'm aware of one found in the East Riding of Yorkshire that was 45 feet long (as long as Lutine) and about 5 feet wide. They traded down rivers to the coast, and that more or less is where my knowledge stops. Redditch is someway from the coast.

I can do a lot of surmising. This boat may not have been 45 feet long, local traffic may have existed etc. I'm intrigued at the dimensions, it's fairly common knowledge that some remarkably small rivers were navigated in small boats, but the length of these things raises as many questions as it answers. Bigger payload of course, but not good on tight bends on an unimproved river, so perhaps the rivers were improved? Was the width a function of the river width? (In Redditch almost certainly yes) or of boat building technology? 

So, an entire new field has opened up for me to spend even more time researching things! Anyone have anything to add? Could be a good discussion!

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700BC was after the end of commercial log boat trading. They were still in widespread use on inland waters, but mainly for leisure. Some log boats were fitted with rows of nailed on bronze washers of which their owners were immensely proud. Such boats were derided by others as washer loggers.

Hope this helps. Jen :)

Seriously though, good luck with your research in this new to you field.

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
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13 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

by 'log boats', do you mean 'canoe'?

Possibly, although "log boat" is the term in the existing management plan and otherv examples show up. However research does suggest they were built out of a single log, which makes a boat the size of Lutine quite an impressive achievement. 

22 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

700BC was after the end of commercial log boat trading. They were still in widespread use on inland waters, but mainly for leisure. Some log boats were fitted with rows of nailed on bronze washers of which their owners were immensely proud. Such boats were derided by others as washer loggers.

Hope this helps. Jen :)

Seriously though, good luck with your research in this new to you field.

:lol::clapping::lol::clapping::lol::clapping:

Thank you! Brightened my day considerably!

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6 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

There is one in the Bassetlaw museum in Retford I remember seeing. Google says it was made around AD380 to 540, so much later than the Redditch one. Found at Mattersey Thorpe.

Jen

Interesting - the ones I know of are generally older than the Redditch one, and boatbuilding would have advanced by AD350. Still, if there were big trees around, and it worked...

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Was very interested in the neolithic period when at school in the UK.  My understanding then and still now was that most of the UK was heavily forested and only the hill tops were clear or slightly less forested, which is why most neolithic settlements were on hills or next to rivers. The Ridgeway is perfect example of this where settlements and trackways predominantly stick to the higher ground and not valleys or lower ground.  Also with no roads and carts, boats would have been the transport of first choice when moving large items or loads, being relatively easy to build, capable of carrying large or heavy loads, and the fastest form of transport in a heavily forested environment.

Edited by efanton
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Log boats seem to have been found all over the country on both tidal and non-tidal waters, with dating suggesting usage for a couple of thousand years, up to 1000AD. The method of construction probably developed over the years, with the earliest just being hollowed out logs. On later boats, fire could be used to heat the log after cutting out the centre, and this allowed the sides to be pulled outwards, improving stability. Subsequently, additional planks were fixed to the sides, from which clinker boat building developed. Given the difficulty in carrying goods of any weight on land, it would seem pretty logical to find methods of using any available waterways.

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2 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

700BC was after the end of commercial log boat trading. They were still in widespread use on inland waters, but mainly for leisure. Some log boats were fitted with rows of nailed on bronze washers of which their owners were immensely proud. Such boats were derided by others as washer loggers.

Hope this helps. Jen :)

Seriously though, good luck with your research in this new to you field.

luvvit  B)

 

was there an issue with continuous moorers in those days?

Edited by Murflynn
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It is possible that the dates have become confused. Boats of the sub-Roman and early middle ages would have had access to the considerable mileage of improved rivers left by the Romans. However in  'The Piercebridge Formula' the author considers that the Romans improved waterways which were already in use for smaller boats and this may mean that improvements had been carried on for many years. It is, I suppose, always worth considering the site of mediaeval mill sites which I believe often appropriated early navigation works as ready made weirs etc. Regards, HughC.

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23 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

There is one in the Bassetlaw museum in Retford I remember seeing. Google says it was made around AD380 to 540, so much later than the Redditch one. Found at Mattersey Thorpe.

Jen

Here is a picture of the one in Retford, which I went to see this morning.  The regular holes in it are a feature of its manufacture - holes were drilled to a fixed depth from the outside of the log, and pegs hammered in. When hollowing out, reaching a peg showed that the hollowing had gone far enough!

I always get Retford and Redditch mixed up - more so now they've both got log boats.

Log boat.jpg

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Needles and pins, Redditch was-is the centre of needles and pins manufacture. The steel dust left over from the grinding process is sold to firework makers, it is the crackle in sparklers and other crackly fireworks. All Retford has, as far as I know is quite a busy railway station and a postbox.

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1 hour ago, bizzard said:

Needles and pins, Redditch was-is the centre of needles and pins manufacture. The steel dust left over from the grinding process is sold to firework makers, it is the crackle in sparklers and other crackly fireworks. All Retford has, as far as I know is quite a busy railway station and a postbox.

You are casting nasturtiums on Retford!  It's a cracking little town with lots of shops and pubs and history. So much so I'm staying an extra night for the middle one.

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5 hours ago, bizzard said:

Needles and pins, Redditch was-is the centre of needles and pins manufacture. The steel dust left over from the grinding process is sold to firework makers, it is the crackle in sparklers and other crackly fireworks. All Retford has, as far as I know is quite a busy railway station and a postbox.

You also now know that it has a museum with a log boat in it.

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I am at the museum at Ellesmere Port at the moment and they have one, IF I remember correctly they now think these are only 1000 years old and not 3000 as originally thought. I will try to photograph the information board tomorrow if thats any help?

 

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12 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I am at the museum at Ellesmere Port at the moment and they have one, IF I remember correctly they now think these are only 1000 years old and not 3000 as originally thought. I will try to photograph the information board tomorrow if thats any help?

 

That would be good thank you: they seem to have been in use for around 3 millennia so getting dates or even era confused is possible!

20 hours ago, bizzard said:

Needles and pins, Redditch was-is the centre of needles and pins manufacture. The steel dust left over from the grinding process is sold to firework makers, it is the crackle in sparklers and other crackly fireworks. All Retford has, as far as I know is quite a busy railway station and a postbox.

Indeed, at the more modern end of the history of the area is the Forge Needle Museum. Mind you, Redditch New Town itself is now 50 years old...

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1 hour ago, magpie patrick said:

That would be good thank you: they seem to have been in use for around 3 millennia so getting dates or even era confused is possible!

Indeed, at the more modern end of the history of the area is the Forge Needle Museum. Mind you, Redditch New Town itself is now 50 years old...

DSCF7958.JPG

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On 5/23/2017 at 14:08, bizzard said:

Needles and pins, Redditch was-is the centre of needles and pins manufacture. The steel dust left over from the grinding process is sold to firework makers, it is the crackle in sparklers and other crackly fireworks. All Retford has, as far as I know is quite a busy railway station and a postbox.

Redditch - named after the battle of Redditch - Red ditches full of blood : Copyright Kevin Turvey.

 

I love facts like those Bizz, had no idea thats what made fireworks crackle.

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1 hour ago, Heartland said:

In addition to hollowed out logs, has any thought been given to rafts for the moving of goods along rivers.

The L&LC minutes noted: 1801-11-12 Timber can no longer be rafted due to damage.

Followed by: 1804-11-13 Timber can be rafted from Top Locks, Burscough, if they are 3 baulks deep, to compete with trade through Preston, but only by agreement with the Liverpool agent.

They do not seem to have been used for carrying goods, with the Bridgewater Canal having decked boats, with cargo carried on deck, from a very early stage.

Timber rafting was used extensively on European rivers, and there are several excellent German books on the subject. I ave been told that timber was floated down the Main and Rhine to The Netherlands in rafts of up to 1km in length, worked by at least 40 or 50 men, with the owner of the wood having a wooden house onboard to keep an eye on things, and as a base for selling at the end of the journey. There were raftmen's guilds going back centuries, in much the same way as boatmen's guilds on the Rhine, Mosel and Danube.

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