Hull survey... corrosion...your opinion.

[Bobbybass]

I'm a reasonably qualified boat person..having lived onboard a narrowboat in the past. I also own a cruiser type boat.

I was thinking of buying another boat..when a friend discovered they had a bad family situation..and they have to get rid of theirs in a hurry. They are asking around £35k.

It's a GT boat..built in Staffordshire in 1991...so she's 26 years old. Because of circumstances..she has not been blacked for 3 years. It was re-engined 13 years ago...so may have done quite a bit of cruising. I like the layout..and the fitout...but ordinarily would not touch a boat of this age without a hull survey. His own insurer will cover it until 30 years...but I'm thinking of my possible ownership when it hits 30.

My 'gut feeling' is that there will be corrosion that will soon need attending to...and ordinarily..I would insist on the hull survey.

 

What I'm asking here..is really opinions. Are there people here who have owned a boat of this age or more..who feel that I'm overreacting?

There is a certain amount of hurry here...and I can't decide whether to just take the risk and jump ?

My experience of boat mechanicals..is enough for me to test drive it for a few hours and decided from that point of view..but the hull..?

Opinions....?...thanks...

 

[dor]

I've seen a Colecraft hull, considered one of the better makers, younger than yours that was on the verge of sinking and needing replating in a hurry.  I've seen ten year old boats that needed overplating.  I've seen fifty year old boats that have hardly got any corrosion.

What I am trying to say is that on a boat of that age, it could be ok, it could be about to sink.  There is no way of knowing without having it out of the water.

[ditchcrawler]

We had a semi trad on a GT hull in 1990s and what I considered the weak point was the drains/support for the rear deck. this consisted of two pieced of box section welded to the bottom of the hull with a hole bored through the hull so that the rain could drain from the deck boards through it. Almost impossible to paint inside the box section.

[matty40s]

GT boatbuilders were well thought of and produced some individual looking shells.

There is no way to tell how the hull is, it will depend on many factors, and damage may have been caused early on, negating recent care.

3 years is not a lot overdue for a blacking, however, if galvanic corrosion is a factor on this boat, will not have helped it's longevity.

Survey.

[Boat&Bikes]

Not particularly cheap is it? If it was a bargain price I'd gamble but as its not I'd want a survey. Obviously if 35 k wouldn't hurt your pocket too much that alters things.

 

Ian.

[mrsmelly]

4 minutes ago, ianali said:

Not particularly cheap is it? If it was a bargain price I'd gamble but as its not I'd want a survey. Obviously if 35 k wouldn't hurt your pocket too much that alters things.

 

Ian.

I agree that its certainly not cheap. I never get a survey but how much can YOU afford to lose? I bought a colecraft 65 footer in 2002 from a bloke who had owned it for 18 years and NEVER had it out of the water or had it blacked. It was 1981 with a 6/6/4 spec. I paid very little for it as both myself and vendor thought it would need work. I took it to Johny Pinder at Tardebigge and he checked the hull and the worst bits were slight wear on the rear chines and the hull was mostly 5.7 mm so nearly " as new " you might find another boat completely knackered at that age. Luck of the draw? I think its too much money anyway at 35k its typical of todays overvalued boats.

[Jess--]

My boat was in very similar state when I bought it 2 years ago, well overdue for blacking and the same age as the one you are looking at.

I didn't have a survey but did have a good look when I took it out for blacking, apart from one small area of pitting on the waterline  (3 inches long x 1 inch high) there was no noticeable corrosion.

in my favour I noted before buying the boat that it had a very minimal 240v setup (2 sockets) and there was no charger or mains hookup lead with the boat (suggesting that galvanic corrosion wouldn't be an issue).

however I have seen boats a lot younger than mine with hulls that are seriously compromised due to corrosion.

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Jess-- said:

My boat was in very similar state when I bought it 2 years ago, well overdue for blacking and the same age as the one you are looking at.

I didn't have a survey but did have a good look when I took it out for blacking, apart from one small area of pitting on the waterline  (3 inches long x 1 inch high) there was no noticeable corrosion.

in my favour I noted before buying the boat that it had a very minimal 240v setup (2 sockets) and there was no charger or mains hookup lead with the boat (suggesting that galvanic corrosion wouldn't be an issue).

however I have seen boats a lot younger than mine with hulls that are seriously compromised due to corrosion.

Yep, weird innit? how some are knackered and others survive.

[bizzard]

A jar of jam goes bad if you leave the lid off and let all that fresh air in.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Jess-- said:

My boat was in very similar state when I bought it 2 years ago, well overdue for blacking and the same age as the one you are looking at.

I didn't have a survey but did have a good look when I took it out for blacking, apart from one small area of pitting on the waterline  (3 inches long x 1 inch high) there was no noticeable corrosion.

in my favour I noted before buying the boat that it had a very minimal 240v setup (2 sockets) and there was no charger or mains hookup lead with the boat (suggesting that galvanic corrosion wouldn't be an issue).

however I have seen boats a lot younger than mine with hulls that are seriously compromised due to corrosion.

The guy who two packed our cheapo hull noted that the hull was very tidy after 12 years of fairly hard use. He said they get "posher" ones half its age with a lot more corrosion. I believe shore power takes its toll if not installed correctly; ours has never been on mains for more than a few hours.

[WotEver]

19 minutes ago, catweasel said:

The guy who two packed our cheapo hull noted that the hull was very tidy after 12 years of fairly hard use. He said they get "posher" ones half its age with a lot more corrosion. I believe shore power takes its toll if not installed correctly; ours has never been on mains for more than a few hours.

I don't believe it's necessarily shore power that causes the problem. WotEver was on shore power 24/7, no GI or IT, with a Victron charger looking after the batts. I've mentioned this before in this thread but she was built in '88 and on her 25th birthday she had an ultrasonic survey for the insurers. Deepest pit the surveyor could find on the 6mm hull was 0.4mm and there were very few of those. The previous week he'd surveyed a 4 year old boat that needed £1000 worth of welding.

So what does that tell us? I have no idea. 

[mark99]

Sounds a lot of dosh for an old boat.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, WotEver said:

I don't believe it's necessarily shore power that causes the problem. WotEver was on shore power 24/7, no GI or IT, with a Victron charger looking after the batts. I've mentioned this before in this thread but she was built in '88 and on her 25th birthday she had an ultrasonic survey for the insurers. Deepest pit the surveyor could find on the 6mm hull was 0.4mm and there were very few of those. The previous week he'd surveyed a 4 year old boat that needed £1000 worth of welding.

So what does that tell us? I have no idea. 

I believe it can be INCORRECTLY INSTALLED shore power. Bad insulation etc. How many people know how to use a megger tester and bother to periodically megger the installation out ? That said some boats pit badly without any shore power, so it can be a mystery.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Guest

[zenataomm]

It appears that what you're saying is that the combination of being under a time restraint and buying from someone you know slows down hull corrosion to the point of eliminating the need for a survey.

I didn't know that.

[alan_fincher]

Certainly doesn't sound a bargain price, even if hull surveys OK.

[Jess--]

I find it funny that comments are going around saying that the price is too high when we only have a maker, an age and the fact it hasn't been blacked.

The boat could be anything from a 20ft toy where the inside consists of a bed and a bucket to a full length with everything in place apart from being blacked.

the fact it has been re-engined seems a little odd but not overly concerning in my mind (although if the original engine lasted 13 years and it was replaced like for like and the usage stayed the same it may mean that the engine is due to die)

If it was me (and I was happy with the price for the boat) I would be having a very careful look along the waterline for any pitting (the lack of blacking may help here), If I found none I would take it as a sign that there probably isn't too much corrosion elsewhere (although this wouldn't be certain), If I found any then I would think long and hard about buying it without a survey

[Mikexx]

12 minutes ago, Jess-- said:

If it was me (and I was happy with the price for the boat) I would be having a very careful look along the waterline for any pitting (the lack of blacking may help here), If I found none I would take it as a sign that there probably isn't too much corrosion elsewhere (although this wouldn't be certain), If I found any then I would think long and hard about buying it without a survey

That's a very good point. Apart from the stern around the prop, the most pitting occurs around the waterline, somewhere you can have a good feel.

At first sight this boat seems a bit on the expensive side, and for that amount of money I would be reluctant to forgo a survey.

[Bee]

I would get a paint scraper and try to scrape a few areas along and below the waterline, if its mostly 'perfect' the rest is likely to be reasonable. if its horrible and scabby then the rest will be no better, see if you can lift a floorboard as well, sheets of rust that you can lift with the scraper are really bad. Wet, black corners are not good either.

[BWM]

16 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Yep, weird innit? how some are knackered and others survive.

I suspect a big factor in corrosion is metal quality, which seems to vary from one year to another.

[Boat&Bikes]

16 minutes ago, BWM said:

I suspect a big factor in corrosion is metal quality, which seems to vary from one year to another.

That can't explain the reason a 20 year old hull suddenly corroding though? I suspect it's electrical problems at the route of the majority of problems. Many very clever people have looked into it and we don't seem any closer to a conclusive answer. I just keep an eye on my blacking and hope for the best. 

[BWM]

I wasn't suggesting that it was the only cause of all corrosion, but it is a factor in the premature failure of steel wherever it is used.

[zenataomm]

I suspect it's also got something to do with what's in the water or under it.

There's a yard on the Erewash that had a reputation for being a home to rusty boats. The story was if you dropped a magnet in it came up looking like a porcupine due to the hundreds of thousands of nails that had been dumped in it during its life as a transhipment yard.